SH Spotlight If you have a turntable you need to play your mono records in true MONO. How to do it cheaply..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, May 14, 2006.

  1. Jonno

    Jonno Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    And to centre the soundstage! :hide:
     
  2. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    Put the Y cord in the tape loop of the Brio R - one end of it into the 'Record Out' sockets and the other end into one of the inputs. I think that should work. It's what I do with my Rega Mira 3 (although the Mira 3 has a 'tape monitor' button and I'm not sure if the Brio does...). Though I don't think it matters. - You send a stereo signal out of the amplifier via the Record Out sockets, the double Y cord combines the two channels and the combined (mono) signal is then fed back into the amplifier via one of the spare inputs. So, to listen to a mono LP simply change the input selector on the amplifier from Phono to whichever of the inputs is receiving the mono signal.

    (Technical Bit: The only problem you might encounter is that the two channels might 'fight' a little. This is because the amplifier is designed so that anything plugged into the output socket (normally some sort of recording device - cassette deck for us old school types, or DAT or mini disc, or hard disc recorder or whatever) will exert a degree of resistance into the circuit (caused by the signal being passed through all of the complicated electronic gubbins in the recorder). With a simple out and in 'wire' this resistance is all but eliminated. However - try it. It won't cause any damage and if it sounds fine then it is fine. I run a cassette deck in my system so I built a simple stereo/mono switch box to sit between the amplifier and the cassette deck so that I can keep the cassette deck in the circuit and choose whether to feed a stereo signal to it or a mono signal. I then simply monitor the same signal that is returned from the cassette recorder when in 'record' mode. But if you have no recorder hooked up to the Brio then the method described above is easier, neater and simple to operate.)
     
  3. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    Or... Of course you can still fit the double Y connector between the turntable and the amplifier if you so wish. - You just plug the two wires that come out of the back of the RP3 into one (female) end of the double Y cable and the other two (male) ends of the double Y cable back into the phono input on the amplifier. This does mean that you will have to keep plugging and unplugging them though and there might be 'capacitance' issues. The tape loop method is much better in my opinion...
     
  4. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    You guys have confused me a bit here. The turntable/receiver combo where I want to try this - i.e. the place where I wouldnt mind plugging and unplugging cables on each listen - I am using my TT's built in preamp and my receiver's CD input. I am doing this because the phono input on the receiver is extremely noisy and most likely damaged. The TT also has the RCA cable hard wired into it so my understanding was I'd have to connect to the dual RCA female end of the Y cable, connect the single male RCA end to the single RCA female end of another Y cable, and then plug the dual RCA male end of that Y cable into the back of my receiver. Am I right so far?

    But what you people are calling the tape loop method is confusing the crap out of me.
     
  5. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    That is right.

    The tape loop method only works if your receiver has a Tape Monitor function. If yours doesn't, you can ignore what people are saying about it.
     
  6. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    Thank you for clearing that up
     
  7. 99thfloor

    99thfloor Senior Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    Don't do this, it may create a feedback loop when you choose the "other" input. The "Record Output" sends out the signal selected by the input selector. There is no way to send one signal to the record out and then listen to a different input. Unlike the Mira the Brio-R has no monitor function.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  8. jpgarry1

    jpgarry1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glendale, AZ. USA
    I have read all the posts and got ready to order the y cables in addition to the Mono Box, but in all the excitement, i did not check to see if my current set up will allow all of the proposed changes. I have a 30+year old Technics SL-10 that still works. The problem is is that the out plug to the receiver was a three prong plug from the unit itself (the third plug contained the ground). Using the y cables will leave the ground open and humming is inevitable. Do you have any suggestions? Should I get a new phono player that will upgrade the system and do what is proposed to listen to the Box correctly. Or, do you guys have any suggestions on how to cure the ground plug issue. Thanks to any and all suggestions. I appreciate your great knowledge.
     
  9. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    Apologies... I hadn't thought of that. 99thfloor is totally correct. Don't do this unless your amplifier has a 'tape monitor' button.
     
  10. on7green

    on7green Senior Patron

    Location:
    NY & TN
    Anyone ever encounter this? From the Benchmark DAC2 Instruction Manual.

    TIP: Mono summing with an RCA ‘Y’
    cable is not recommended as this will
    cause high amounts of distortion. Mono
    summing with a ‘Y’ cable can be
    accomplished with the use of a modified
    cable by implementing a 1k Ohm series
    resistor in each leg of the ‘Y’.
     
  11. Madlove

    Madlove Hare Hunter Field

    Location:
    Upstate NY
    With the kind help of xmas111's knowledge and plans, I built his mono / stereo switch box for my system. It worked beautifully! You really can feel and hear the difference when playing mono records. Thank you xmas111.[​IMG]
     
  12. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Interested in selling those to forum members?
     
    Madlove likes this.
  13. HarvG

    HarvG Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    I would be another interested purchaser!
     
    Madlove likes this.
  14. jumpinjulian

    jumpinjulian Forum Resident

    You could maybe try attaching an extension cable of sorts to the ground plug and make sure it's attached to a grounding source?
     
  15. 99thfloor

    99thfloor Senior Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    I have seen this warning before, here for example:
    http://www.rane.com/note109.html

    I am not an electronics expert so I cannot give a technical answer, but I think this is in regards to only summing your signal, like you might do for a sub-woofer, but I think the impedance problem in our case might be gone since we are splitting the signal again? Perhaps someone with a deeper knowledge of electronics can explain this, because I have wondered about it too?
     
  16. Easy-E

    Easy-E Forum Resident

    Me too :) That looks really neat and tidy. I still cant quite believe that no-one manufacturers these :confused:
     
    Madlove likes this.
  17. HarvG

    HarvG Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    As mentioned earlier in this thread, there is one out there that is commercially available, but it goes for $229:
    http://www.kabusa.com/msx1.htm
     
  18. Easy-E

    Easy-E Forum Resident

    Yes that one is a beauty alright. No what Im unbelieving is there is no $30 one. There would be a market for them surely. Theres 3 sales in this thread alone.
     
    Madlove likes this.
  19. HarvG

    HarvG Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago Suburbs
    Hope this has not been raised before, but please see this article ( http://www.rane.com/note109.html ):

    "Wye-connectors (or "Y"-connectors, if you prefer) should never have been created.
    Anything that can be hooked-up wrong, will be. You-know-who said that, and she was right. A wye-connector used to split a signal into two lines is being used properly; a wye-connector used to mix two signals into one is being abused and may even damage the equipment involved.


    Here is the rule: Outputs are low impedance and must only be connected to high impedance inputs -- never, never tie two outputs directly together -- never. If you do, then each output tries to drive the very low impedance of the other, forcing both outputs into current-limit and possible damage. As a minimum, severe signal loss results."

    I am not an engineer (nor have I ever played one on TV), so please help me understand how this article does not apply to what we are all doing with the Y cables to play our mono vinyl. Or is it not a valid argument? Thanks!
     
  20. Madlove

    Madlove Hare Hunter Field

    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I suggested to xmas111 that he make them available as kits or as pre-built. If I could build it, literally anyone can. I had zero soldering experience, so I watched a couple of youtube vids and basically got the gist. It was cheap and fun to build, instructions from xmas111 were foolproof and it's made my mono listening experience better. I say go for it!
     
  21. JL6161

    JL6161 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    If your receiver has a ground plug/input compatible with the TT's plug, just connect the TT's ground connector/plug directly to it as you usually do. Only the + and - RCA connectors need to go through the Y cables. If the receiver and TT ground connectors don't match, then yeah, you need an up-to-date TT.
     
  22. Easy-E

    Easy-E Forum Resident

    Is xmas111's instructions in the thread somewhere? I can do foolproof (I think) :)
     
  23. Rubber65

    Rubber65 Forum Resident

    Hey all, I have a very basic pro-ject debut carbon turntable with an ortofon 2M Red cartridge. The amplifier I'm using is a TEAC A-H01 Stereo Amplifier with DAC. Speakers are Castle Knight 1. Nothing fancy, but just nice little system to listen to my LPs. I'm by no means a big spender on high end systems. I've listening to Beatles stereo LPs on this for 2 years now and no problems. Now because I ordered the Mono vinyl box set and am looking forward to listening to them, do I need to purchase a mono cartridge or y cable. Or could I simply play the mono LPs using what I have. Thanks for the feedback.
     
  24. Madlove

    Madlove Hare Hunter Field

    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I contacted xmas11 directly, via this forum.
     
  25. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    You can just play them and enjoy them with what you have. They will sound great. - You could buy a dedicated mono cartridge or tinker around with some sort of 'double Y' cable or make your own switch box in order to hear them in true mono but you don't have to... They will sound absolutely fine with the system you have.

    I am an advocate of the 'real mono' thing (and I've made my own switch box to prove it). It does bring benefits but those benefits (at least on new vinyl) aren't huge (IMO) and there are too many people getting into too much of a flap about it rather than just enjoying the music...
     

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