“The 3” - A bit of a game

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Drew D. Saur, Oct 19, 2015.

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  1. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Buddy Holly is another one of the 30 or so who I have alluded to. He seems to be "The 3" but it's not a closed case. Needs more explanation and support.

    Bruce — I've been waiting for this one — is very controversial. Songwriting chops? OMG absolutely. But his singing is generally beloved by his fans for the most part; it's unfortunately derided by many others, like that or not. And while he has instrumental chops, no doubt, I haven't heard a convincing argument that he would be world-famous on those alone.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  2. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Then there is Peter Cetera. Another candidate who I would like to see discussed more in this thread...
     
  3. Chev

    Chev Forum Resident

    I think Sly is a candidate too, but I'm biased so I'm not sure. Songwriter: Kaboom. Singer: Yep. But is he a world class instrumentalist? The Family Stone emphasised tight ensemble playing over individual displays of virtuosity. Sly's keys are often in the backseat adding texture and pulse but nothing fancy. You could make a case for him as a multi-instrumentalist, playing guitar and bass and whatever and as an innovator programming drum machines. But I'm still not sure.

    It'd tick these:

    Stevie Wonder
    Paul McCartney
    Muddy Waters
    Curtis Mayfield
     
  4. ledsox

    ledsox Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Kind of amazed there's been no mention of Pete Townshend. At times a real triple threat in my book.
     
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  5. bagofsoup

    bagofsoup Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Bruno Mars
     
  6. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident Thread Starter

    OK, he's on the list of 30 or so others that have been bandied about. The reason he's not a shoo-in is kinda interesting: he's an OK vocalist, but if he were the type of vocalist that we're talking about for "The 3," then The Who mightn't have had Roger Daltrey. Make sense? That's the level we're talking about with this game. So, imagine if Pete Townshend only was ever a solo act, and imagine him singing. Would he be considered a world-class vocalist? The type of person who other songwriters would wish to sing their work?
     
  7. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident Thread Starter

    He's "The 2" for sure, but tell me which instrument he is universally lauded as a genius with?
     
  8. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    Instrumental prowess I can see....but vocal excellence? That purely subjective. As is great songwriting capabilities.

    I could say Mark Knopfler. Some people love his voice...others hate it. There are no absolute answers to this.
     
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  9. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident Thread Starter

    So, voice aspect of this game can be made at least a bit easier by asking: is it clear, to a large number of people, that the person could have had a career based upon voice alone? This may be somewhat objectively measured by identifying how often a person was asked to sing on other people's records. For instance — speaking of Mark Knopfler — Sting was asked to sing on "Money For Nothing." And at least a few other pieces. So Sting might be "The 3" — his songwriting skills are obviously there — if one considers that he could have had a career on bass playing alone, which is entirely possible, and I think needs more discussion in this thread. That would be an example of how to make it easier to consider vocal ability - hope it helps!

    Honestly, MK has sung on a variety of records with different people, but in my estimation they were all projects that had some weighted contribution from him. I don't think people generally go out of their way to work with him based upon his voice alone. I think his musical sensibilities and guitar playing are the larger reasons for the MK collaborations that we are all familiar with...
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  10. OobuJoobu

    OobuJoobu Forum Resident

    Location:
    Yorkshire, UK
    Whatever yardstick you've used to come up with that statement (that he's not an above average singer) needs taking back to the store for a refund as it's broken beyond repair.
     
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  11. Aggie87

    Aggie87 Gig 'Em!

    Location:
    Carefree, AZ
    That argument doesn't make sense if you're saying Knopfler isn't a good enough singer to qualify, simply because Sting sang backup on one, ONE, Dire Straits song. He's not the reason that song was successful.
     
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  12. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident Thread Starter

    My point is larger than that: That's just one example of many where Sting was asked to sing on another band's or person's work (http://www.allmusic.com/artist/sting-mn0000522377/credits - you can filter by vocals, if you wish).

    It's only handily coincidental that I was able to use the MK reference to make this point :)
     
  13. Aggie87

    Aggie87 Gig 'Em!

    Location:
    Carefree, AZ
    Well, it's your decision apparently, but both Pete Townsend and Mark Knopfler - to me - clearly qualify as great singers, great songwriters, and great guitarists.

    Another more current musician who hits all three is Steven Wilson. He's a great guitarist and keyboardist.
     
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  14. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    So the only vocal qualifier is that the person has been asked to sing on someone else's record.
     
  15. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident Thread Starter

    No, that's just one way to help think about the qualification. The most basic qualification is what I stated in my original post.
     
  16. groundharp

    groundharp Maybe your friends think I'm just a stranger

    Location:
    California Day
    Chuck Berry!
     
  17. Drew D. Saur

    Drew D. Saur Forum Resident Thread Starter

    No, it's not really my decision. The idea is for the larger world to contribute their opinions, as a large number of opinions is what makes this truly valid. The arguments for MK & PT are far from over - the public version of this game has just started!

    I am only trying to set some parameters to help with the game play. I have been playing this game for a *loooong* time :)
     
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  18. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    ?

    Here's what you say...

    • A world-class singer, with a voice that is so desirable, other songwriters want this artist to perform their work.
    Define "world-class singer" without it being completely subjective.
     
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  19. Coppertop Tester

    Coppertop Tester Forum Resident

    Peter Case anyone?
     
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  20. bagofsoup

    bagofsoup Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    He's a pretty great guitarist actually.
     
  21. bagofsoup

    bagofsoup Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I think he defines it pretty well. "...a voice that is so desirable, other songwriters want this artist to perform their work."
     
  22. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    Any songwriter? What makes a songwriters desire anything more than subjective?
    I've written some songs. I'd like anyone famous to sing them so I can make money.
     
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  23. stephenlee

    stephenlee Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    I thought long and hard about proposing Bruce, but as much as I love him (see my avatar), his voice definitely is not world class. Nobody's going to hold up his singing as an example of a great voice; great vocals, yes, using his equipment to the best possible advantage on his songs, but not what one would call a great singing voice.

    As for your question about his instrumental chops, you're way off-base. Have you ever heard the live 1978 recording of "Prove It All Night," with the long instrumental guitar intro? Or any of his work with Steel Mill, his pre-E Street Band? The man was known regionally as a top guitar-slinger years before his CBS contract!
     
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  24. stephenlee

    stephenlee Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Now, this guy absolutely is one of "The 3"! A beautiful voice, with great songwriting chops and widely acknowledged as one of Nashville's top guitar-slingers. For more than ample proof, just check out his 2006 4-CD set, These Days. To quote Wikipedia, "Consisting of 43 original songs spanning four discs, the album displays the range of Gill’s lyrical and musical styles, ranging from traditional country and bluegrass to jazz and rock. The album was nominated for two Grammy Awards including Album of the Year and won Best Country Album. The album is currently number 10 on People Magazine's 'Top 10 Best Albums of the Century (So Far)'."
     
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  25. Khamakhazee

    Khamakhazee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Elton John, but did he actually write those classics?
     
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