Rush - new 2015 vinyl and hi-res reissues thread. (Part 2)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ken_McAlinden, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. Steve Martin

    Steve Martin Wild & Crazy Guy

    Location:
    Plano, TX
    Moving Pictures was originally 192khz on all the sites but there was uproar and it was quickly pulled and replaced with 48khz (I actually got the 192khz from Pono before the switch). All the subsequent releases from that era were only provided at 48khz.

    So, yes, the label started only providing 48khz, but only after people complained when MP was initially released at 192khz.
     
  2. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    So, are the 24/48 a different mastering than the 24/96?
     
    David Bostock likes this.
  3. Hymie the Robot

    Hymie the Robot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    The 2015 versions are all the same Sean Magee remastered versions. Some of them were downsampled to 24/48 because of being originally recorded digitally. However, Mr. Magee remastered them in 24/192. Many of us would like to have the 24/192 versions rather than the downsampled ones.

    The 24/96 versions are the older remasters and are now obsolete do to them being inferior.
     
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  4. CheezCache

    CheezCache Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florence, Alabama
    I know, I remember he was not happy about it when he posted on here after the 192khz Moving Pictures was released and then downgraded. I agree with him, and would love to have all of these in the highest resolution possible.

    Yeah, I got the 192khz version on Pono too. The store I was trying to think of was 7 Digital. Even after everyone else pulled it, they kept the 192khz version, and I assume they still have it up. Kudos to them.

    Why anyone would complain about a higher resolution being available is beyond me. If someone feels it's a waste of space, they should just buy the lower resolution version, not complain and get it taken away for those who want it.
     
  5. Steve Martin

    Steve Martin Wild & Crazy Guy

    Location:
    Plano, TX
    I think they complained because it appeared to be upsampled. But since it was not priced like 24/192 but more like 24/48, I don't know what the issue was. If they were trying to get $24.99 for it, I guess i could see people being upset but I think it is crazy that prices are resolution based anyway.
     
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  6. pnutpug

    pnutpug New Member

    The 200 gram pressing from Mercury arrived today and reminded me of Johnny Rotten: Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

    Absolutely horrid. Tom Sawyer, I know, was associated with the Mississippi River in real life, and Mercury must have taken this seriously, because this pressing sounds like the Big Muddy in the flesh. I was absolutely shocked by how bad this record sounds. Like something from Four Men Without Ears played underwater. This is one of my favorite records ever, but the copy I've had for 30 years sounds, way, way, way better than this, and I've played it to death. I'm listening to it now, back-to-back with the copy that arrive today, and the difference is night and day.

    I cannot emphasize this enough. Do. Not. Buy. This. Record.
     
  7. Steve Martin

    Steve Martin Wild & Crazy Guy

    Location:
    Plano, TX
    That is really interesting. The digital release that that LP was cut from is very highly regarded and sounds fantastic to me. Sean Magee did a great job, sounds like something when horribly wrong in the LP manufacturing?
     
    johnny q likes this.
  8. ad180

    ad180 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    That is a VERY over-the-top, hyperbolic description of the 2015 vinyl release.

    Are there differences? Yes. Magee's mastering tends to have a little more in the lows and midrange compared to the RL pressing. I'm of the opinion that Magee used less compression/limiting on these releases, so they don't sound as "forward" as the originals. And that's a good thing. Have you tried turning up your stereo? The Magee records like volume. The sound opens up and the dynamics make everything sound more realistic.

    And I hate to be that guy, but what turntable/stylus are you using? What kind of speakers? That can make a huge difference, especially when comparing different records.
     
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  9. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Outlier. Everyone except a few loves the new vinyl pressings. I A/Bed my original RL with the new one and both are excellent, with personal preference going to the RL.

    What kind of equipment are you listening to the record on? That makes a difference too.
     
    scottp likes this.
  10. pnutpug

    pnutpug New Member


    It was over-the-top bad. Fortunately, Soundstage Direct is taking it back. First time I have ever been moved to request a refund based on a record simply sounding bad.

    Yes, I tried turning it up. Cheap Thrills (an MFSL 45 RPM pressing), which I played directly before, sounded marvelous. The old pressing, as I say, sounded marvelous. Nina Simone Sings The Blues (from Speakers Corner, a favorite label), which I played after playing the original Moving Pictures pressing, sounded terrific.

    I'm running a Yamaha PX3 with Focal 826W 30th Anniversary speakers. Can't recall the specific cartridge. But trust me, friend: It ain't the system. It's the record. When everything else in a listening session sounds great, including a different pressing of the same record, it ain't the system, it's the record. If it looks like a duck and flies like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck...
     
  11. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    So everyone else here is crazy for thinking it sounds good?
     
  12. JAG

    JAG Forum Professor with Tenure

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    considering he has posted all of 15 times in 2 years.......I am going to stick to my opinion and those that I trust more, it sounds very good on my system and is the best sounding vinyl in my opinion
     
    johnny q likes this.
  13. pnutpug

    pnutpug New Member

    Didn't say that, and I can't account for it. Frankly, probably my bad, but I didn't thoroughly read what others have said about the record. All I can go by is my own experience, and mine was horrid. If anything, Focals can be bright, but the sound I got was monochromatic--perhaps my original recording was a hot stamp (haven't checked the dead wax) and so others will suffer by comparison. If you or others have had a different experience, great.
     
  14. pnutpug

    pnutpug New Member

    OTOH, if a record is so awful--or a motorcycle or a stamp or a piece of rain gear--that the listener is compelled to hit a not-often-accessed web page, that, also, says something, I think.

    Again, if your experience was different, great. You should trust your own ears more than what anyone says. That's what I do.
     
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  15. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Hot stamp? You mean among a press of a record, there are some copies that sound even better than the rest?
     
  16. pnutpug

    pnutpug New Member

    Not sure whether this is sarcasm, but what the hey...

    So I've heard. Never checked it out personally, but there is a guy out there somewhere, in LA IIRC, who makes pretty fair coin hunting down hot stamps (first 100 or so from a pressing) at thrift stores, garage sales, etc. and flips them for ridiculous amounts of money, including stuff by Christopher Cross. Says that any reissue is inferior to a hot stamp, which I'm not sure is the case. Then again, I'm not selling copies of Back In Black that I bought for $1 to hedge fund managers for $2,000. It does make a certain amount of sense that the first ones from the press are going to sound better than the last ones.

    The only thing I trust, really, is my ear. I'm a vinyl junkie from way back--never gotten rid of a single record that has crossed my path, and that's going back to 1976 (bought Boston's debut record and Hotel California on the same day after getting Hard Day's Night as a Christmas present). Much as I love vinyl, and it's pretty much the only thing I listen to, the unfortunate truth is that it's been surpassed. I know, I know--and I don't mean to spark an already-had debate or argument. I was convinced of this recently after spending time with Bill Dudleston, who's a really cool guy whose goal and passion is reproducing sound the best way possible, regardless of expense or format. He, gently, explained why records can't compete, which is a hard thing to accept. But, end of day, he's right, and he's got a listening room to prove it. Doesn't mean we shouldn't love records, and I always will. I'm still buying them like crazy, even when I should be spending money on other things. But, if sound quality is your uppermost goal, you shouldn't be buying records. And I hate it that I've just written it.

    I digress more, perhaps, than I should have. We can chase records and talk about what sounds good and what does not, and it's all good, so far as I'm concerned. But the record I'm sending back sounds like you-know-what. If you could hear it, you would agree.
     
  17. johnny q

    johnny q Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bergen County, NJ
    I agree - outlier indeed. I am an original sterling RL fan boy and the new MP vinyl and hirez digital hang right in there with it.
     
  18. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    My thoughts on the RL vs new 2015 pressing was that they were both great but that I like the RL better. The new one was dark and less sparkly than the RL, so maybe that's why some people don't like it, as I know that's the big complaint that went around when the 2015 PeW vinyl/high-res release was issues, even thought I love the way it sounds.
     
  19. ad180

    ad180 Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I can't comment on your setup (those Focals have gotten great reviews!), but considering you don't remember what cart you are using, I'd say there MIGHT (not for sure) be an issue with your setup. I hope you don't take that personally.

    Not every record is created equally. There was a time when Classic Records released Who's Next, and a lot of people thought it sounded terrible. Some carts couldn't track it properly. When I upgraded my cart, there was a HUGE difference in sound quality, for the better. It's all a matter of what your cart/table combination can handle. Modern cutting engineers are giving us more (the good ones at least) because modern turntables can handle increased low end and dynamics.

    So if it's a setup issue, or more than your cart can handle, your ears aren't lying to you. :) But upgrade your cart and/or table, and you might be surprised.
     
  20. johnny q

    johnny q Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bergen County, NJ
    I agree with everything you say about MP, RL vs new 2015 pressing. However, I was one of those folks that did not like PeW for the reasons you state. However, I have an early US promo of that one which I am convinced is unbeatable :)
     
  21. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    No sarcasm. There was one online record store that had "hot stamper" versions of pressings being sold at crazy high premiums. I thought it was bogus. I agree that sometimes copies pressed late in a particular stamper's run can sound worse than those pressed earlier in the run, but this idea that there are a select few copies within a run that sound better than the rest seems bogus to me and just a way to separate people from MORE of their money.
     
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  22. pnutpug

    pnutpug New Member

    No offense taken at all. But, I don't think that there is a problem, per se, with my setup, although my turntable is, most definitely, not modern. Then again, I think that "problem" can be relative--the guy with the $250k rig is likely going to find the $10k setup problematic. Like I say, other stuff, including fresh off the press "modern" records, sounds great. As for upgrading, it would be great to spend a few hundred here and a few hundred there to find the Cartridge From Heaven. I don't have that kind of money. The current cartridge is an Ortofon, but beyond that, I can't say--it came with the table, and I've never investigated further. The stylus is recent, installed by the shop that put the PX3 (which I got for a song) in working order, and it was a good shop, Alpha Tech in St. Louis (for what it's worth, the repair tech praised the cartridge and said that it was worth keeping). The way I figure it, if 90-plus percent of my collection is pure joy with my setup, and it is so far as I'm concerned, then I'm not keen on an upgrade. Gear-wise, I pick my spots out of fiscal necessity. The Focals were ridiculously cheap ($750, including Musicwave cables, and don't ask me the model number of those) and the Nitty Gritty that made my old records sound alive again.

    You're right, I think, in that not every record is created equal, and it's interesting that you should bring up Who's Next. I've got three versions, none of which satisfy me (and not the Classic Records version). I'm thinking that the solution might be--shudder--to just go the CD route sometimes. It doesn't happen very often, but there are some occasions--this version of MP that's going back, Who's Next to a lesser extent, Psychedelic Sounds of the 13th Floor Elevators (which sounded equally awful on a friend's better-than-mine setup)--where it's just joltingly bad. Being as I can't afford to spend hundreds if not thousands on upgrades, at least now, the solution, probably, is to go digital if analogue isn't cutting it. I did surrender a few months ago and get a Rega player, a necessary evil given that some stuff, notably Dave's Picks (I have a subscription), isn't available on vinyl.

    All this said, I still maintain that a record should not sound as bad as this one does on a quality system, and I would submit that I'm not running a Fischer Price close-and-play. Could it be better? Of course. Should I have to buy a new turntable and cartridge to extract acceptable sound? I don't think so.
     
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  23. pnutpug

    pnutpug New Member

    I think it's relative. If I have zillions of dollars, well, why not? At least, to a certain extent. It's just going to get wasted on something else, anyway. I don't think I'd spend an extra quarter on an MFSL pressing with a low number. I trust that label's quality control--I don't think that they're going to put out stuff that is distinguishable from one number to the next. But, as AD180 says, not all records are created equal. MFSL's 45 RPM version of American Beauty is, I think, nothing short of jaw dropping, Workingman's Dead, less so (but still very good). The 45 RPM of Cheap Thrills, which arrived yesterday, is in the same league, I think, of American Beauty in terms of transformative.

    More and more, and lots of people I'm sure already do this, I shop by label as opposed to title. The local Goodwill recently put out a bunch of old Deutsche Grammophon records, all in spectacular condition, and while opera/classical is hardly my strong suit, I bought them all (at 49 cents apiece, how could I not). It is fine stuff, light years away from Geddy Lee, but I am acquiring a taste...
     
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  24. Apologies for momentarily derailing the current conversation. I have a question out of curiosity: Is it true that the 2015 vinyl reissue of "Fly By Night" doesn't have the locked groove with the endless chimes that close "By-Tor And The Snow Dog"? I didn't buy it since I have a nice UK original. Thank you.
     
  25. FVDnz

    FVDnz Forum Resident

    As a matter of fact, By-Tor does indeed end with the extended chimes. Not sure what you mean by the locked groove though. Guess I'll take another listen. :)
     

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