Good points. We all have to remember most of music, whether the music itself or the way it sounds, is pretty darn subjective. We can basically agree if something sounds good in general or if it's generally bad, but from there it starts getting fuzzy. Just look at any "what's the best pressing" thread and you really see it! And for the most part, no one's wrong! And them pretty much all of us have different rigs, so you throw that in the mix and now no one is even hearing it the same way! But it's still fun.
The Mofi is more dynamic than any other version, including the original vinyl. I love dynamics as much as the next person, but more doesn't always mean better.
Even if you are alone in a cave with no kids, wife or neighbours, listening at the right volume for the quiet passages is really too much when the piano jam comes in, if you have normal hearing, and its uncomfortable especially if you use a remoteless amplifier
Yes, it is more dynamic than any other version. OMG, I love me MFSL Gold CD. It is amazing sounding, and I've said it a thousand times before. It's like listening to The Master! It is also the cleanest and most transparent version I've heard. Is it becsuse it is free from any form of compression it is so clean? Why has this mster tape only been used once in history? (Correct me if I'm wrong)
The Mofi in my system is "less" dynamic that the original pressings, and sounds slightly compressed. It is definitely quieter thou. I just realized you guys are talking about the Gold CD, not the original vinyl. jeff
If I'm not mistaken, it comes from a different (earlier) tape that wasn't intended for the released LP.
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend the 2002 remastering. I don't consider myself an audiophile but the loudest parts have been limited and you get that 'wall-of-sound' effect in the most dramatic parts of "Hide in Your Shell" or "Dreamer". Personally, I'm happy with the recent Ray Staff remaster which, according to pretty much every forum member, isn't as dynamic as the MFSL (which I haven't heard), but I don't sit there listening and thinking "I wish this CD was more dynamic". The dynamics are a big part of the album's sound but I think the 2014 CD has enough of them. YMMV, and all that.
Just a brief note - I've owned the MFSL, UK, and American pressings of this on vinyl. The US pressing is the most dynamic of them all but overall I prefer the British copy over it for smoothness and detail. The US is touch "edgier". The MFSL didn't stay long in my collection - it seemed a little strident/artificial. It's been years though since I've heard that version so my memory of it could be off. I would like to hear it again on a good setup (my current stereo system is a far cry compared to what I used to have).
Currently there's no listing for the MFSL vinyl in the DR Database. The MFSL CD is listed, and is the most dynamic mastering of them all. Even more dynamic than the original vinyl. The MFSL CD doesn't sound artificial to my ears, but it *does* sound very analytical. The same is the case with the black triangle Notorious CD by Duran Duran, BTW. Which is also unearthy dynamic for a pop music release.
Thanks for this, I just ripped a second FLAC copy of my MFSL CD and applied the opposite of this EQ and it really fixed the lack of bass/excessive highs. Much more enjoyable listen. I'll keep the original in my library for archival purposes, but this re-EQ'ed version is now my go-to (I searched for this thread after buying the BluRay HFPA disc earlier this week and not being 100% happy with the sound of it or the MFSL CD).
Not to many thoughts on the COTC Blu-ray Audio. I was thinking of grabbing the Blu-ray before it goes OOP. Anyone compare the Blu-ray to the MFSL?
I don't have it, but it's hard to imagine it would be anything less than amazing. Have any of us ever heard an actual "bad" version of this album? Even the domestic A&M orginal vinyl, while usually noisy, still sounds great. I would certainly grab one if I did music that way. A top 3 album for me in all ways. By the way, I finally got an amazing copy of Even In The Quietest Moments on vinyl, an album I always felt was a bit thin sounding even though Ken recorded it as well. I even have the A&M audiophile version out of Canada, and it wasn't that great either. A forum member put one up for sale here and swore by the amazing sound, and he was right. I have purchased at least ten versions of this album and always thought it likely was recorded better than it sounded. Guess what...it is! Not COTC sound, but it's very nice and I noticed a lot of small nuances I never noticed before.
Can you please enlighten us and share which version that is, maybe with the corresponding Discogs link? Would love to get good sounding version of that album. Thanks.
For free...really? Oh, I forgot...this isn't the Better Records web site! Side 1: T1 AMSP5005 CRC T2 Side 2: T1 AMSP5006 -T3 This is clearly rare...I've never seen one. Can anyone explain the matrix numbers? Note: the T1 at the beginning of the prefix is a good inch away from the rest of the numbers, before they start on both sides, so it may not mean anything. I hope you get a cleaner copy. Mine is just full of pops and clicks, and I never would have stood for that from a forum member, but it is such a step up that I kept it and it's my go to copy now despite the defects from not being well cared for. I need to hunt down a good copy. I've been looking at my local stores but so far none have these matrix numbers. Good luck!
I'd like to draw attention to something... the different editions of the remaster are technically not identical masterings. Compare these DR reports for the CD, the Blu-ray and the hi-res digital download; note how the peak values do not match up. From these figures it appears the Blu-ray has been normalized (mastering error?), while the hi-res download seems to have a few clipped samples. The CD doesn't look like it has either of these problems, and may be the version to get. I'm by no means an expert in this subject, so I hope others can weigh in. Code: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Supertramp - Crime of the Century (deluxe edition) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -0.28 dB -16.82 dB 01 Supertramp - School.wav DR15 -0.29 dB -17.10 dB 02 Supertramp - Bloody Well Right.wav DR12 -0.27 dB -15.60 dB 03 Supertramp - Hide in Your Shell.wav DR12 -0.28 dB -16.88 dB 04 Supertramp - Asylum.wav DR11 -0.28 dB -16.51 dB 05 Supertramp - Dreamer.wav DR13 -0.35 dB -18.73 dB 06 Supertramp - Rudy.wav DR14 -0.29 dB -19.27 dB 07 Supertramp - If Everyone Was Listening.wav DR13 -0.30 dB -17.45 dB 08 Supertramp - Crime of the Century.wav ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 8 Official DR value: DR13 ============================================================================================== Code: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Supertramp - Crime Of The Century (blu-ray audio) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -0.30 dB -16.85 dB 5:38 01-School DR15 -0.30 dB -17.09 dB 4:32 02-Bloody Well Right DR12 -0.30 dB -15.60 dB 6:50 03-Hide In Your Shell DR12 -0.30 dB -16.84 dB 6:47 04-Asylum DR11 -0.30 dB -16.57 dB 3:33 05-Dreamer DR13 -0.30 dB -18.72 dB 7:21 06-Rudy DR14 -0.30 dB -19.26 dB 4:06 07-If Everyone Was Listening DR13 -0.30 dB -17.44 dB 5:33 08-Crime Of The Century -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 8 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 192000 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 24 Bitrate: 5693 kbps Codec: FLAC ================================================================================ Code: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Supertramp - Crime of the Century (24-96 digital download) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR12 -0.01 dB -16.81 dB 5:35 01-School DR15 0.00 dB -17.10 dB 4:32 02-Bloody Well Right DR12 0.00 dB -15.60 dB 6:50 03-Hide in Your Shell DR12 0.00 dB -16.88 dB 6:50 04-Asylum DR12 -0.12 dB -16.57 dB 3:33 05-Dreamer DR13 -0.26 dB -18.72 dB 7:21 06-Rudy DR14 -0.15 dB -19.26 dB 4:06 07-If Everyone Was Listening DR13 -0.18 dB -17.44 dB 5:33 08-Crime of the Century -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 8 Official DR value: DR13 Samplerate: 96000 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 24 Bitrate: 2956 kbps Codec: FLAC ================================================================================
They aren't everything but for this album, I would argue that on a good system they are quite important indeed! This is a very dynamic album by design. I think the better the system, the more clear that becomes and I think it's great folks are making sure they get the right one. For casual listening, I agree with you.
I see a few versions that come close to the dead wax descriptions, but no exact match. Very curious indeed... the plot thickens...
On a good, no very good system dynamics are irrelevant. Music should exist in a space with it's own natural unforced dynamics. If a system sounds dynamic it's not natural. imo
Perhaps (and I used to own a recording studio so my opinion may be way too biased...we could be full of ourselves!)....I can tell you that I think with this particular title, meaning this probably doesn't apply to most other recordings, Ken Scott was making the dynamics part of the process, like another instrument as if he was part of the band. I think that's quite unusual, and one of the reasons this album is so well loved by the audiophile community. It is no accident that the dynamics are all over the map (and in a good way imo as he knew what he was doing, and clearly had a vision for how it should sound) and that the other Supertramp albums are not engineered like this. Ken has his fingerprints all over it...Breakfast in America sounds nothing like it (and yet, another amazing album but for other reasons imo). Ken was very disappointed he wasn't asked to do that one. And you are so right, but maybe not in the way you intended. That certainly isn't the way that album would have sounded when played live! The post production work is ridiculous; A&M was so happy with how it was coming out they told Ken he could take his time. So, I agree with you but I think this title is purposely an exception.
Don't give up! I looked on Discogs right after I got this as I am dying for a quiet copy. I saw the same thing...close, but I'm assuming close isn't going to get it done! I have pruchased a ton of these and that is the only one that sounds the way I suspected it should have all along. Why they don't remaster this and release it again on vinyl is a mystery to me. Clearly it was well recorded, but they lost it in the mastering except for that one run.