Roxy Music - Avalon....why no audiophile treatment?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by richbdd01, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. cwd

    cwd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    I have the excellent original sacd but will still be all over this...
     
  2. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Thanks but just confirms its a lowish res digital source. I believe an analogue stereo mix down (production) master still exists.
     
  3. Digital-G

    Digital-G Senior Member

    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    I totally get what the OP is asking. Just because something sounds great as a 'regular' release, that's never stopped MSFL, DCC or AF from releasing a remastered version of it. Witness Steely Dan's Aja, James Taylors offerings, Miles Davis, Santana, Supertramp, Elton John, The Carpenters, etc. Yes, some of these offered an improvement, some maybe not, but isn't that where most of us audiophiles live, on that smallest margin of improvement? I too, think it's surprising that an album known for good sonics hasn't been given the "audiophile treatment" from one of the audiophile labels (even if it may not truly be needed).
     
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  4. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Forum Resident

    It is, but keep in mind that in a multitrack tape each instrument/track is recorded at a different level to get the most out of the tape or digital system. Because of this, you can get a higher dinamic range and lower noise from a multitrack digital tape even if it 16 bit if properly mixed.
     
  5. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    At least someone knows where I'm coming from... :)
     
  6. colinu

    colinu I'm not lazy, I'm energy saving!

    For those that think the SACD multi-channel sounds spectacular, there is a back story of a happy accident
    If you search the internet 9(or even this forum's archives) you will find a "happy accident" story for the 5.1 mix of Avalon. I forget the details, but some parts were recorded at the wrong speed which led to their sample rate being higher when the speed was corrected.

    Also, the multitracks for India could not be found when the SACD project was active. They panned the two-track through the various channels.
     
    Plan9 likes this.
  7. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    The Avalon SACD certainly has an excellent 5.1 mix! I'm a fan of Steven Wilson from the perspective that he has moved multichannel music forward so that many artists (Yes, King Crimson, Jethro Tull and others) have utilized his talents. I for one certainly do not think he "walks on water". But without his efforts many titles from the fore mentioned artists might have never been released in surround. I'm hoping Roxy Music's first album is released with a multichannel mix from SW :).
     
    mikew and Plan9 like this.
  8. Rodney Toady

    Rodney Toady Waste of cyberspace

    Location:
    Finland
    It is - very well put. No argument there!
     
  9. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    If they'd done this in 2012 instead of 2002, they might well have approached I differently with the advances in technology and techniques. It's fine the way it is though.
     
  10. Rne

    Rne weltschmerz

    Location:
    Malaver
    That would be a dream come true. I hope Wilson's remixes of that album see the light of day next year.
     
  11. Vinylfindco

    Vinylfindco The Pressing Matters

    Location:
    Miami
    Right, Rickie Lee Jones S/T didn't need it but it's been done 4 times at least. That's another one that always sounds amazing. If someone can get a small improvement in sonics or pressing quality, I'm all for it, particularly Avalon.
     
    richbdd01 likes this.
  12. In the U.S. Roxy is hardly "big name" so I could see it possibly here. I think that the audiophile labels aren't sure they will sell in the U.S.

    Actually the latest remasters are pretty good and the SACS remasters of the boxed set sound wonderful. These have been available in superior sounding Japanese remasters and some inferior ones as well (Bob Ludwig's). I'm sure that plays part as well especially when you realize they've also been reissued twice domestically (in the U.S.) digitally as well.

    It could also be as you say that even though Roxy was never huge in the U.S. were still asking top dollar to license it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  13. art

    art Senior Member

    Location:
    520
    Can't get anymore audiophile than the SHM-SACD.
     
  14. showtaper

    showtaper Concert Hoarding Bastard

    I agree - I don't think the US demand will warrant a physical release. Maybe a high resolution download??
     
  15. Possibly. That's why I'm at least excited for the rest of the discography possibly being remixed by Wilson. The "Avalon" multi-tracks are toast as I recall.
     
  16. I have a huge problem with remasters that are straying too far from the original release and all my MSFL purchases have been disappointing on that front. The sound quality is good, the press is pristine and all, but they distort the original sound too much.
    Reissues are, most of the time, not very "useful" in my opinion: too often these labels focus on well known albums with a lot of original press still available
    I mean, if a label reissues some rare, hard to find, stuff, great. But another reissue of Miles Davis or Jimmy Hendrix????
    that said, it's a free world, so let everyone do as they please.
     
  17. Rodney Toady

    Rodney Toady Waste of cyberspace

    Location:
    Finland
    I would have thought so, too, but apparently there isn't enough treatment in a flat transfer.
     
  18. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    London
    Just managed to get hold of a copy of the Japanese edition vinyl in pristine condition. We shall see how it sounds and compared when it arrives...
     
  19. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    What is the original sound? Depends if it's the first vinyl pressing or the master tape you want to emulate. I imagine audiophile labels are trying to reproduce the master tape rather than the sound of the original vinyl release that many are familiar with.
     
    Rodney Toady and richbdd01 like this.
  20. I don't disagree with you. For what we pay there are far too many misses, or if they aren't a miss they may still need not meet our own expectations. I think it's safe to say that most of us here would prefer to secure an original, especially one that is known to be the best available. But that's not always easy. I have no problem obtaining a well-documented quality reissue in those cases. And like you..I don't need another copy of KOB and would love to see more of those rare to find titles on one of the major reissue labels.
     
  21. Rodney Toady

    Rodney Toady Waste of cyberspace

    Location:
    Finland
    Excellent point! I have often wondered why it is that the sound of original vinyl LPs is so often perceived as the yardstick against which to measure the sound quality of reissues, even though there's no guarantee that the initial release exactly matches what's on the master tape. I remember how back in the day artists were always complaining in interviews how their albums were severely compromised in the cutting stage and ended up sounding nothing like they did in the studio.
     
  22. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Originals are only desirable if they prove to be the best sounding which may not mean they are the closest to the master tape sound. The only other point of an original is collectability for the label and artwork. More important than the sound to many people.
     
    Johnny Vinyl likes this.
  23. Ash76

    Ash76 Wait actually yeah no

    My NM Aussie copy I found in the $2 bin a couple of years ago sounds fantastic. Doubt I could get a better bang for my buck
     
    Munger74 likes this.
  24. Thats interesting. It's like they would "de-master" the original record to get back to the tape sound. Or start from the tapes and do a new mastering job without paying any attention to what the original RECORD sounded like.

    However, one often sees documentaries of how the new mastering was made and engineers often have a pristine original RECORD to make sure they master the reisssue as close to the original.
     
  25. tomd

    tomd Senior Member

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    Considering how well this album is known (and loved) in audiophile circles I can't understand why in 2016 we haven't seen at least a vinyl remaster and a Blu Ray Audio disc of it.Doesn't the catalog still belong to Virgin which is now UME or am I missing something here?
     

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