The Beatles "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" original 1965 stereo mixes?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by AlanDistro, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Derek Gee

    Derek Gee Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    Nope, EMI told us at the time that no noise reduction was used on the Mono tapes. From:

    9 September 2009: The Beatles' mono and stereo remasters are released | The Beatles Bible »

    "Some equalisation was used where appropriate to enhance the sound, but the removal of tape hiss was used subtly and sparingly. Less than one percent - five minutes - of the stereo recordings was treated to noise reduction, and none of the mono remasters were affected."

    If you can tell us of a specific spot where you hear noise reduction (vs EQ differences) on the mono tapes, please let the group know.

    Derek
     
  2. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Anyone know if the tracks of these original 65 stereo mixes were the same ones used on the 65 US stereo Rubber Soul that's part of the Capitol Box Vol. 2 ?
     
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  3. Lewisboogie

    Lewisboogie “Bob Robert”

    Yes, original Capitol boxes have 1965 mixes.
     
  4. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Yes, except The Word was a different mix in the US and I'm Looking Through You had false starts in the US.
     
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  5. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    My only problem with George Martin's 80's remixes is the addition of reverb or echo (as on Dizzy Miss Lizzy for the latter). Other then that, he did an admirable job re-balancing the "stereo image" as well as beefing up (slightly) the lower end and brightening up the sound a bit. That said, the original mixes-which can be found in the mono CD box-are important to have.
     
  6. Lewisboogie

    Lewisboogie “Bob Robert”

    :righton:Oh, yes, I thought he was asking in general about 87 mixes, making sure they aren't on those discs.
     
  7. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Okay thanks.
    So I could make a 65 US stereo RS playlist from my mono box Help and RS.
    I have Capitol Box Vol. I but not II.
    Having Capitol Box Vol I, an individual Vol II Help cd I got separately, both mono and stereo boxes and select 2014 US albums cds, I haven't searched for Capitol Box Vol. II
     
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  8. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    I can excuse the Lennon double tracked vocal on the U.S. RS only because his voice sounded that much "cooler" double tracked..but it was really quite a liberty for Capitol to take if you think about it.
     
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  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    ????
     
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  10. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    How did Capitol "take liberties" with that particular song? They used what they were given. It's not as if they just happened to have a spare "The Word" vocal of Lennon's for them to add.
     
  11. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    That mix was also made by George Martin. Capitol couldn't remix anything, they didn't receive multitracks, the unique mixes came from England (sometimes they were early mixes, other times George Martin made a different mix for the USA deliberately). What Capitol did do was add reverb and/or compression in certain cases.
     
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  12. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Except for The Word and the beginning of I'm Looking Through You.
     
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  13. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
     
  14. 389 Tripower

    389 Tripower Just a little south of Moline

    Location:
    Moline, IL USA
    I'm listening to '09 Stereo Help CD right now - I'm really digin' it! WAY better sounding (to me) than the '09 Mono, and I like it better than the '65 stereo version from the mono box. The echo does not bother me at all in Lizzie. Maybe I just got used to it recently.
     
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Did we ever figure it out?
     
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  16. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    New member here. New as in a few days. Yes Sir George Martin remixed Rubber Soul and Help back in 1986. He found the original mixes to be, "woolly," whatever that means. I don't know if this is true or not but he wanted to remix A Hard Days Night (understandable) and Beatles For Sale (No-o-o-o! Don't!!) But there wasn't enough time. I heard he wanted to remix Revolver as well, but that would've been very difficult i.e. Tomorrow Never Knows. That's the rumour. And he did mix them by himself - just 4 tracks. Someone else did the analog 1inch to digital dash transfer, but Mr. Martin did everything else. He not just a producer he's an Sound Engineer as well. He was happy with everything else. Further note: He had planned to put the volcals in the middle with Rubber Soul but changed his mind. He felt that the fans would get upset if he messed with Rubber Soul classic hard left, hard right mix.
     
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  17. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Rubber Soul is my favourite Beatles album, but I would love that they made a good stereo mix. The mono mix is the definitive version, of course, but I would love to have a stereo version that doesn't drive me nuts with the hard right/ hard left/ hole in the middle.

    The 1987 remix by George Martin is just silly: once you've decided to remix, the purists are going to call sacrilege, so why not make a proper mix? There's not only reverb to it, I think some of the songs center slightly the vocals (Drive My Car, I'm Looking Trhough You...), but I don't understand the reverence he had for the original mix. He didn't solve the problems it had, and he added new ones.
     
  18. Todd W.

    Todd W. It's a Puggle

    Location:
    Maryland
    I have always taken heat for this opinion, but for me, I love the 87. It is my favorite version of Rubber Soul. It is my favorite Beatles also. I always loved Drive My Car as the opener more than the US version. It is one of the few of that group I enjoy.
     
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  19. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    'Tomorrow Never Knows' would be no harder to remix than any other Revolver song - all the tape loops are already pre-mixed on one track of the 4-track.
     
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  20. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    What I don't like about it is just the digital reverb. I prefer the placing of the vocals (slightly more centered) better than in the original mix. But as I said, he should have made a proper remix, with vocals completely centered and good overall balance. As it is, he upset the purists of the original mix and didn't satisfy the people who wanted a proper stereo.
     
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  21. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Expediency? Time constraints to get as many songs recorded for the film soundtrack before principle filming was to begin? The film songs definitely have a rushed feel to them. The mixing isn't as crisp as usual. The mono mixes are all rather murky-sounding, especially when compared to the Beatles For Sale mixes. Many of the stereo mixes went back to the instruments on one channel, vocals on the other with a few overdubs thrown in for good measure. Not quite twin-track, but not nearly as adventurous as many BFS songs. The non-soundtrack material, with one exception, is better-sounding by some measure.

    Of course other issues may be involved as well. Maybe the tape used was of poorer quality for some reason. The gear, as you say, was the exact same. So, it probably comes down to tape quality and trying to get as many songs recorded and mixed before principle filming began. Unlike A Hard Day's Night which was filmed in and around London, Help saw the Beatles traveling to the Bahamas and Austria. It was necessary to have songs at the ready. All the soundtrack songs, plus Yes It Is and two outtakes, If You've Got Trouble and That Means A Lot, were recorded in less than five days. And if anyone wonders why Tell Me What You See sounds a bit worse than the other tracks on Side B, that was also intended for the soundtrack and was recorded during the February sessions. In all, eleven new original songs were recorded, then mixed into mono and stereo in one week. As typical, the stereo mixes were done the day after the Beatles flew to the Bahamas (taking copies of the eleven mono mixes with them for director Richard Lester).

    A definitive answer? No, but it certainly is plausible. Ron
     
  22. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yea, that was a typical George Martin answer in the 80's. He had no reason to think a book would be written (Lewisohn) that would examine the Beatles recording career in detail, so he could tell little fibs when it fit him. You know, that HE didn't do stereo mixes for the first two albums and "someone else did" without his knowledge. Tape boxes and recording sheets tell another story. Or that HE didn't use Ringo on their first EMI session because he didn't know his abilities (Ringo is of course the drummer on their first session), and that he was actually usurped by session drummer Andy White for the second session. It seems more likely that Ron Richards, not Martin, made this decision having been the producer on the first session and watching Ringo struggle some (not that the others were superlative either). Lots of little things like that, including that Tomorrow Never Knows couldn't be remixed because of the tape loops. Ron
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  23. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Yes, either his memory wasn't very good or he just made up excuses for certain things he didn't like then. For example, I don't find very convincing his (different) explanations for the stereo mix of Rubber Soul being hard right/ left like in the first two records. Any alternative theories for that? Could it be that RS was also a rushed album (because of Christmas) and that type of mixing made things easier for him?
     
  24. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Still holding out for the AAA stereo set, with Rubber Soul centered vocals.....:magoo:
     
  25. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yea, Rubber Soul, even more so than Help, reverted back to the Hard right/left mixing style. Maybe it was just easier to do it that way if time was of the essence. We know that there was definitely a rush to finish Rubber Soul for the all-important Christmas season. Ron
     

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