The Beatles "Help!" and "Rubber Soul" original 1965 stereo mixes?

They became aware later in 1965 that playback of stereo records on MONO record players changes the balance of the mix. Center noises (usually vocals) are 3 dB louder than in stereo playback. To avoid any problems with this, they decided to leave the center empty (We can work it out & Day Tripper were given the same treatment). And yes, as most stereo equipment was housed in some wooden furniture and the left & right speakers were hardly more than 1 m apart, it did not matter.
This was just for the 10-20% of stereo records they sold....

 

Those are Martin's explanations, but I don't find them very convincing:

-Mono was the predominant format, there were more copies manufactured, and stereo records were more expensive so, why would someone buy a stereo record to listen to it folded down in a mono player?

-If they really thought this was the way to mix, why did they only do it in Rubber Soul? (apart from the first two albums, which were twin track recordings). Those conditions Martin explained remained the same in 1966.

 

I don't know. They did this also for We Can Work it Out and Day Tripper. Sometimes, people buy stereo records and play them on several phonographs, some stereo, some mono ?
I also find GMs explanations not very convincing - at least they are correct technically. He said (if i recall correctly) that they want to make sure the stereo sounds exactly like the mono, even if it is played on a mono machine, which it would not if something is mixed into the center of the stereo image. Mono was such a priority these days, that stereo>mono compatibility was considered more important than a good stereo image ?
They went back to regular stereo mixes soon - so they might have thought that the decision to mix hard L/R was not a good one in the first place.
All speculations....

 

Those two were recorded and mixed during the same sessions for Rubber Soul.

I don't know, I wasn't around during the sixties. But I don't think anybody would make mixing decissions based on that possibility, and not looking for a good balance.

Yes, they are techincally correct (for example the Capitol mono Help! is a fold down of the stereo version, and the vocals are too prominent). But still, I don't think those are the real reasons for that mix.

 

Not on the original 1965 mix of We Can Work It Out (on Y&T), which has harmonium in the centre (I believe that's the only instance of centre information on a Rubber Soul-era mix).

It could have been mixed with mono compatibility in mind - not just for the people buying the records, but perhaps a reaction to what Capitol did on their 'Help'' LP.

 

That I find more likely. The American market was very important and surely Martin was appalled at the mono Capitol Help! That would also explain why he didn't continue the same technique, since Capitol used the dedicated mono mixes for RS.

 

If RS was mixed with mono compability in mind then that ethos was very shortlived and absndoned already the next time they entered the studio.

 

How different is The Word on Capitol Bov Vol II than the 65 UK stereo or the 87 remix?
I have the false start on Looking through you but only as an added feature to the US albums RS which is still the 87 remix/2009 remaster I believe

 

Yea, I corrected that in a subsequent post, it was Rubber Soul that reverted to that mixing choice/style. Why bring a jazz recording into this? Certainly some albums can sound good when recorded and mixed fast; others sound better because of the care and deliberateness involved. While a mic is a mic, HOW they are set up is what matters most. Now why would the results be different just a few months later? I think the quickness of the sessions may have something to do with the murky(ier) sound. Maybe ol' Norm just didn't take the time to get a fab sound because of the limited time involved. Notice that the sizzle on Ringo's cymbals is rather muted compared to songs from Beatles For Sale. Maybe the tape used wasn't up to the usual EMI standards? Maybe they installed new drapes on the wall at good ol' Number Two. ANy number of possible reasons. Hell, you're the music expert here, what do YOU think is the cause(es)? Ron

 

Different four-track? Looks like they moved from remote Telefunkens to Studer J37s in the control room starting with the song "Help!".

More bounces? Did the Studer being in the control room allow/encourage more of this?

 

Capitol did not do the double-tracking. It was a completely different mix sent to the US by EMI.

Derek

 

It's been my belief that the stereo versions of those records were mixed specifically for those small stereo suitcase phonographs that were becoming so popular with children at the time. The left-right mix being the only way to provide separation with the tiny speakers being so close together.

 

And I agree with you 100%. I never thought the remixes , with the digital reverb were any improvement.

 

Good point, but the title track was recorded two months after the other film songs, plus Yes It Is, Tell Me What You See, That Means A Lot and If You've Got Trouble. True, Help does sound better than the previous batch of tunes. Ron

 

The latest DVD remix shows how well the Help album was recorded. The 65 mixes were just dull for some reason.

 

..interesting...and thanks for the info.

 

There were some internal bounces, but the title track was the only one with a reduction mix.

The recording process changed, moving from mostly live with overdubs to getting a backing track and adding things onto it. I think that plays a big part in the overall sound.

 

Actually, Help! DVD 5.1 mix reveals that You're Going To Lose That Girl must have been reduced too!
One set of Paul and George backing vocals is on its own seperate track without John's lead vocal which is double tracked too. That makes 5 tracks in total.

Ondra

 

Maybe Sir George Martin just blew this one.

 

I love that song, but I wish they would have reduced those dang bongos in the right channel.

 

No, yer right, Steve- the Help! LP is mixed in the same manner as Beatles For Sale and A Hard Day's Night- centered vocals, rhythm instruments on the left, lead instruments and overdubs generally on the right. The non-centered vocals aside, even the original '65 stereo mix of Rubber Soul isn't as extreme "vocals on the right, instruments on the left" as the first two twin-track albums. There are instruments across the stereo spectrum on the '65 Rubber Soul, it's just that the vocals aren't centered. IMO that is all George Martin should have done in 1986 (similar to what he did for those Rubber Soul tracks used on the Rock And Roll Music and Love Songs LPs)- center the vocals, leave that unnatural-as-hell reverb out. Also IMO the Help! album didn't need to be touched at all in 1986. That over the top reverb on "Dizzy Miss Lizzie" makes it sound like it belongs on John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band...George Martin channeling his inner Phil Spector or something