Kraftwerk 2004 The Catalogue Sound quality compared to original Cd's

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Maidenpriest, Aug 15, 2014.

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  1. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    Thank you for detailed information.
     
  2. Something I found interesting is that the 2004 master of The Mix actually sounds slightly better to me than the 1991 original disc, bass sounds a bit beefier and more detailed, not a knock on the original though.
    If memory serves me, the 2004 has higher peaks, but still the same DR.
     
    Squad 701 likes this.
  3. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    I bought all the albums as 2009 English remasters on CD and stored my original Autobahn, Man Machine and The Mix CDs. Two years ago I came across an original Computerwelt CD while shopping in Munchen and took that one home. Listening to it I was really in awe. It needs the volume to be turned up, and then it sounds warm and funky. I noticed I was was really dragged into the music like never before. It became a reference CD to me.

    I started comparing the original discs I still had with the 2009 discs and was surprised about how bad the 2009 actually sound when you take notice. Autobahn is okay, but even that one is warmer and more dynamic on the original CD. Man Machine is awefully remastered, with bloated bass and an in your face sound that gets annoying quite fast. Computerworld isn't as bad as Man Machine, but still isn't the reference quality that the original is.

    By now I'm basically hunting down the original CDs for the albums I like, which is kinda hard if you don't want to pay too much. They're rare now. I also read in another thread that the English versions are actually copies from the German versions with new vocals, so I'm looking for the German versions to get as close to the original masters as possible.
     
  4. Sytze

    Sytze Senior Member

    IIRC, the 2009 Computerwelt is better than the 2009 Computer World. That said, I have hem both as original cd's (the English version as a Japanese copy with bonus track) and I do prefer those over the 2009 ones.
     
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  5. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    That's so true. The remaster of Computerwelt isn't bass bloated like Computer World. But the original CD of the latter is only better for the first five songs, to my ears. The last two songs, "Home Computer" and "It's more fun to Compute", sound better in the remastered version to my ears. They really benefit from a more compressed and modern sound.
    The Elektra/Asylum, CD 3549, is still available at JbHifi in Australia, easy to get it sealed and it sounds exactly like the vinyl my father used to play :)

    I actually think that Computer World is worse than Man Machine. I own the original CD of "Die Mensch-maschine", made in Holland, and it doesn't sound so good (it's so bright, but it doesn't seem to have pre-emphasis, it's just bad). The remaster gives a new life to Spacelab and Metropolis, at least to my ears.

    That link is the bible, but unfortunately it's only for the English versions of the albums.
    I've been looking for months for the 2004 promo box, but it's impossible to find it (and it's only for the English albums, as far as I know). Do you have it, or do you have some samples to 'taste' it?
    I'd be rather curious to check how it sounds, at least TEE, CW and TMM
     
  6. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Yeah the box is impossible to find. I only have the 2004 TMM. I can post samples if you want.
     
  7. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    That would be really great, thanks. When you have time, no rush :)
     
  8. Vorlon

    Vorlon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    I have the original, German KlingKlangs, love'm. Regarding Autobahn I use the remaster, which is DR13. Tour de France is OK, but a bit too loud a late evening living a flat. Slams way too much at low volumes.
     
  9. negative1

    negative1 80s retro fan

    Location:
    USA
    theres 9 copies on discogs (7 for the US):
    Buy Kraftwerk - The Catalogue 12345678 (Box Set) at Discogs Marketplace »

    i've had 2 copies of it, and gave one away to my brother, and then replaced it with the new boxset,
    so gave that copy to someone else.

    i listen to those versions on occasion over the new ones..

    it's bizarre what they did to electric cafe/technopop by splitting up the telephone call.
    this box has the original full version.

    The Telephone Call 8:04

    later
    -1
     
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  10. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    albertop likes this.
  11. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Wow, I would never have thought. When I was looking for them 5 or 6 years ago (?), they were unobtanium at realistic prices.
     
  12. Nothing beats the 2014 German remasters on vinyl, not the original LP's (UK or German), original CD's, remastered CD's or anything else.
     
  13. I wouldn't bother to hunt down original German CD's. I have Die Mensch Machine and TEE and neither is particularly dynamic or clear. They sound quite weak and hissy compared to the 2014 remasters.
     
  14. Sytze

    Sytze Senior Member

    It wasn't split up but replaced by the single version and the 'House Phone' remix from the original 12". I like it that those have made it to cd, actually. When I want to hear the original version I reach for the original 'Electric Cafe' cd, which doesn't sound bad either.
     
  15. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    Thanks. It does sound good.
    It's about 5dB quieter than the 2009 remaster, and there is less bass, which is good.
    I thought I'd notice more the compression on the 2009 version, but it's fine to my ears. There isn't a huge difference overall, but small, good, nuances.
    Would you agree?

    Hey, thanks for the link :righton:
    Like @Plan9 said, I also remember looking for these a few years ago, and found unacceptable prices. Now it's kind of affordable.
     
  16. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I agree the 2004 is the clear winner.
    Generally to my ears the 2009 remasters have a very compressed, unrelentless sound (not to mention NR) which make the bass really bloated, sap the air, blur the transients and neuter the dynamics. As you can see I'm not a fan. :laugh:
     
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  17. Mr Physical Format

    Mr Physical Format Member

    Location:
    London
    They are not brickwalled but remixed ever so slightly fatter in the bass .
     
  18. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    I can see that, and you are right :winkgrin:
    I listen to the original CDs for most of the albums, but I don't like my CD of TMM (made in Holland, 1987 I guess). I'll have to use the 2009 remaster for that :sigh:
     
  19. The 2004 is a lot easier to find than people make it out to be
     
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  20. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Technically, they are not remixed, they are remastered so the bass appears louder.
     
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  21. Mr Physical Format

    Mr Physical Format Member

    Location:
    London
    If you do anything to the original mix even its a remix . A remix doesnt mean that in the middle of the song it goes cha cha cha chaka khan :laugh:
     
  22. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Actually, re-mix means that you mix down again the multitracks into a mono, stereo or surround new mix, with or without adding new parts. Some extreme cases of "dance" remixex keep so little of the original that are in fact a new piece, but in the field of ressues, re-mix is just a mew mix from origina multies.
    If you do "anything to the original mix" as far as re-transfering, EQing, Compressing and/or processing, that's mastering, not mixing.
    If you cut sections, add new ones, extend, etc, that's editing (even though the added parts could be remixes themselves, d'oh!).

    Kraftwerk remasters were just... remastered. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
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  23. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    Yes, the original german 80s CDs are the way to go...for "Trans Europa Express", there are two masterings available. Second mastering was probably made in 1994, is a bit louder compared to the 1986 CD, but from better tapes I think. I have both and I like 'em both :)
     
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  24. I have a German Man Machine CD from late 80's / early 90's and it sounds incredibly deficient compared to my UK vinyl LP. There is no weight to the sound at all. It is thin, gutless, quiet and thoroughly undynamic like a poor cassette recording of a vinyl LP played back on a cheap turntable. TEE is certainly better but still nowhere near as punchy, dynamic, rich or thick sounding as the UK LPs'. With a set of UK vinyl originals and the German vinyl remasters (2009) I'm all set. I don't need the CD's at all as they sound so inferior it's almost impossible to adequately communicate. I might use them as drinks coasters. Surely no one else has these as their best copies?
     
  25. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    I like the german KRAFTWERK albums on original vinyl AND the 80s CD versions. There is nothing wrong I think.
     
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