Universal and Sony Hong Kong SACD, K2 HDCD, UltraHD CD Series

But there are only 1000 of each! Do you see a lot of people offloading them then? This is kind of why I haven't unwrapped them. The thinking would be if the CD layer measures as per the 2003 remasters and the SACD layer is not appreciably better they are dubious masterings and should be discarded?

 

It seems all the usual cd sellers have them and quite a few sellers on Ebay, not to mention many Asian cd sellers online. I think I read somewhere that the first 1000 copies are numbered and limited, but there may be un-numbered copies either coming or already out there.

Do a Google search on "Japan Tin Drum sacd" and you'll see what I mean.

 

One thing to keep in mind when buying Japan/Hong Kong releases are the sources used for releases. Last December I got the Japanese SHM-SACD for The Planets performed by the Los Angeles Philarmonic and conducted by Zubin Mehta, a recording done in 1971. The SHM-SACD sounds good, great for a 1971 recording, but then I got the newly released by Universal/Decca LP record mastered at Abbey Road from the originalmaster tape. The Universal/Decca LP trounces the Japanese SHM-SACD. Sometime early this year Analogue Productions is releasing this recording on hybrid SACD mastered from the originalmaster tapes. I have on preorder and I'm pretty sure it will also trounce the Japanese SHM-SACD. The Japanese SHM-SACD has an SPARS code of ADD and as it is a full analog recording thismay mean this release is sourced from a digital copy of the album but, at what resolution? Native DSD? HiRez digital? 44.1/16? Who knows, but this is not the first Japanese release I've bought with high expectations just to be disappointed.

 

I'd make a huge distinction between Hong Kong releases and Japanese releases. The Hong Kong releases are almost always from high-rez PCM transfers struck by the original domestic label, if we are lucky. The Japanese companies will often seek out the original analog masters for new masterings if pushed by fans (of course after they've put out two or three prior editions). If the original American/UK masters aren't available, they often use their own domestic analog dubs. Which isn't perfect but can sound fine.

 

That is exactly what you was hopping for: "...something completely new rather than a perhaps minor improvement on top of what may not be the optimal mastering." Flat Transfer is the sound of the originals, it transfers sound of the Original Tape into the digital world without any changes.
If tape was good, the sound will be good and, thanks God, this is a case.

 

Come on, Patrick, what are you risking so much here? Just unseal only one album Tin Drum for starter and see for yourself how good it is.

I compared Tin Drum to my best Brian Ferry Mini LP SHM-SACD Boys and Girls, which ranks in Very Good category.
Tin Drum outperformed Boys and Girls, coming very close to Roxy Music Avalon Mini LP SHM-SACD, which remains in The Best category from the release date.

 

Sorry, guys, something here I cannot understand:

Who cares, whether it is 2003 Remaster or new Flat Transfer from Master Tape, if sound is Very Good?

 

What matters is if it uses the 2003 mastering then it should sound like the earlier cheaper release.
Has anyone compared the new discs against the 2003 versions?

 

I think I'll unwrap and do just that (including stats) this weekend. If nobody beats me to it.

 

It is not a first time they change mind. It was U.K. (band) SHM-SACD / Pt SHM release, where they announced Latest Remastering, as a sound source, but ended up with Flat Transfer and confirmed that in the credit notes (unlike this project).
In this HK Hybrid SACD project (1000 copies Limited Ed.) Uni joined Sony and they are following Sony's rule - no credit notes to lye by saying nothing.

If we would compare with 2003 remaster, we could know more precisely and (very important) what to expect from them in the future releases.
My hope is and it looks this way that Uni will use Latest Remastering for more recent releases (from 2008 and on) and Flat Transfer for older ones.

You don't need to afraid to open. You always can sell this limited release in like new condition. I always do.

 

Agreed - it needs to be done

 

Yes, don't be afraid...

 

If you keep this attitude up you'll never become a toilet doctor.

 

Looking forward to more reviews!

 

Did you bite the bullet Patrick?

 

Weekend didn't work out, wife was ill. Maybe this coming one. Job interview on Friday first..

 

HK Sony Music is releasing on single-layer SACD: Billy Joel's "The Stranger", Celine Dion's " All The Way....A Decade of Song", and Carole King's "Tapestry". Complete with cardboard slipcase and pressed in the EU.

 

The Stranger
Again
LOL

 

Still no reviews of the Japan sacds.

 

Or some DR values

 

I'm confused! I ynought this thread was about Hong Kong releases?

 

I have a gut feeling, since these are supposedly taken from the 2003 remasters, that they are no great shakes, just an attempt to lighten our unsuspecting yet eager wallets. Anyway, I'm skeptical and hanging onto my dollars until I hear something really positive. I just hope I hear one way or another before they go OOP!

 

The 3 sacds by the group Japan - Tin Drum, Gentlemen Take Polaroids and Oil On Canvas.

 

Here are two tracks from "The Best of Folk Songs"

foobar2000 1.3.13 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2017-02-23 08:49:42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: ?-16 - Harry Chapin - 16 Cats In The Cradle
Number of samples: 19862634
Duration: 3:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Left Right

Peak Value: -0.40 dB --- -0.05 dB
Avg RMS: -16.01 dB --- -14.97 dB
DR channel: 12.80 dB --- 12.06 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official DR Value: DR12

Samplerate: 88200 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 32
Bitrate: 5644 kbps
Codec: PCM (floating-point)
================================================================================

foobar2000 1.3.13 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2017-02-23 08:51:03

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: ?-12 - Al Stewart - 12 Year Of The Cat
Number of samples: 31182810
Duration: 5:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Left Right

Peak Value: -0.72 dB --- -1.23 dB
Avg RMS: -11.62 dB --- -12.23 dB
DR channel: 8.77 dB --- 8.67 dB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official DR Value: DR9

Samplerate: 88200 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 32
Bitrate: 5644 kbps
Codec: PCM (floating-point)
================================================================================

Foobar cant do the DR in their native DFF format. So I converted them to 32/88 PCM and got the above results. While the Harry Chapin track comes reasonably close to the DR13 of the best DR for that track I could find, the Al Stewart track (DR9) falls quite short of the DR13 for many of the 80's CD releases.



Furthermore, here is the waveform for "Cats in the Cradle". See the stark line of fall off just above 20k? Not what I would expect to see in a true hi-res sample. I sampled two other tracks and they had the exact same cutoff around 20k.

So my overall feeling is that these are NOT going to be the go to Audiophile standard for these songs. On the plus side, they do sound reasonably good, so the mastering itself, apart from differing degrees of applied compression is pretty good. At least they are not brickwalled to death! Its also true that this is the only appearance of at least some of these tracks in a hi-res format.

Maybe this is worth getting if you dont already own (have paid for) these tracks previously. But if you have and already have the cutting edge best SQ versions of these in CD quality, then I wouldn't spend the money hoping for big quality improvement.