The "Beatles For Sale" album (1964). Unfairly ignored or underrated ?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by johnny moondog 909, Mar 18, 2017.

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  1. BlueGangsta

    BlueGangsta Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I don't think any Beatles album could be either of those two things on this forum.
     
  2. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Believe it or not there is a world outside this forum.... or so I'm told. :)
     
  3. BlueGangsta

    BlueGangsta Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I'm reporting your post.
     
  4. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll

    Location:
    DK
    Important to remember that on this album they mostly took the easy way out, because they were just worn out.
    As far as I remember, 7 of the cuts on the album were knocked off in one single day. That tell books.
    The stereo album was among the biggest revelations on the 2009 remasters. In fact it almost became my biggest favourite in that series. But the cover versions? No, I don't agree they rank among their best. "Rock 'N Roll Music" IS great and "Kansas City" and "Words Of Love" are fine, but "Mr. Moonlight" stinks and "Honey Don't" plus "Everybody's Trying To Be My Baby" are flat-out uninspired performances.
     
  5. Raving Russell

    Raving Russell Forum Resident

    The Lennon-McCartney compositions show a clear advancement on this album. Some of the Beatles finest music is to be found here. I regard 4 out of the 6 covers as excellent. The cover art on the front and back is captivating too. As others have said, both the stereo and mono mixes are very satisfying.
     
  6. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    Yes, the terrible Australian cover design featuring performances from their Australian tour. The album, was one of my first Beatles albums, taped onto cassette from my cousin's mono pressing with that cover design (although I didn't appreciate the mono cut at the time - I felt cheated not having the stereo).

    Although the Australian BFS is not directly addressed, the inferior cover printing of Australian records in the 1960's has been illuminated by Jae here [post #60]:
    It was 50 years ago today (Capitol released the "I Want to Hold Your Hand" Single)*
    and here (posts #4, 11-15, post #13 discusses difficulties with the 1982 printing of the Australian BFS cover]
    1st pressings v later ones in Australia
     
  7. Haristar

    Haristar Apollo C. Vermouth

    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    I was listening to this yesterday. The original songs are really great, especially No Reply, I'm a Loser, I'll Follow the Sun, I Don't Want to Spoil the Party and Every Little Thing. The covers, not so much. I enjoy the Carl Perkins songs but I'm not really a fan of the others.
     
  8. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    It's got the best stereo version for anything before Pepper. Great album but too many cover versions probably because they were short on new material. Original material includes some of the best Beatles tunes.
     
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  9. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    The album could have been spectacular if they weren't tired when they recorded it and had more time to write originals. It had the potential to rival Rubber Soul.
     
  10. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    Capitol had the opportunity to present an all-original album when they carved up BFS for Beatles '65, but didn't (It would have meant a covers-heavy Beatles VI though).

    No Reply
    I'm A Loser
    Baby's In Black
    I'll Follow The Sun
    I Feel Fine
    She's A Woman

    Eight Days A Week
    Every Little Thing
    I Don't Want To Spoil The Party
    What You're Doing
    I'll Be Back
     
  11. Jimmy B.

    Jimmy B. .

    Location:
    .
    I love a lot of Beatles For Sale, it's a great album,
    but I'd never put it in the same league as A Hard Day's Night, which I feel was their peak as songwriters.
    This one, songs like I'm A Loser and No Reply show an honesty that would later be in the song Help! that I like, and I think Eight Days A Week is pure pop perfection, so...
    Yes I like this album very much!
    The covers, as some have stated, is where the album drops in quality, my opinion too on that. The originals are mostly totally great.
     
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  12. SixtiesGuy

    SixtiesGuy Ministry of Love

    Man, that is a pretty lame cover. John looks like his hair was dyed blonde.
     
    goodiesguy, qwerty and AFOS like this.
  13. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Still better than a lot of today's music....:magoo:

    Starts off strong with NO REPLY! To some, Baby's In Black, Mr. Moonlight, I Don't Want To Spoil The Party & Honey Don't aren't the greatest, but hey......:shrug:
     
  14. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Canada
    The mono remaster from the box set is pretty good, but my UK Parlaphone stereo reissue from 1977 is really terrific. Tom doesn't get a lot of Beatles For Sale on his site-like he does for Please Please Me-so I'm quite jealous of your outstanding copy!
     
  15. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Sorry. I shouldn't have spread an obvious falsehood like that. It will never happen again. :)
     
    BlueGangsta likes this.
  16. adm62

    adm62 Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    How many albums have you heard?

    It's a step down after AHDN . Fairly rushed hence the covers here including their worst song. 3 or 4 of the originals are excellent but really it's about their 8th or 9th best album I can think of 100s of better rock albums.
     
    Michael Macrone likes this.
  17. malco49

    malco49 Forum Resident

    I like "beatles for sale" it is one of the four mono vinyl releases i bought.(i did by the mono CD set in 2009).
    I think it is the transitional album for the band.from moptops to what would become.
     
    johnny moondog 909 likes this.
  18. I agree with your take.

    One side note about "Beatles For Sale" though. They sure were stumped with new ideas for album titles! Fortunately, imagination took over with "Rubber Soul"...
     
  19. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    10,000 or so. The best ones in rock are those by The Beatles. Mr Moonlight makes it worse than their others as the least successful track they recorded.
     
    JeffMo and somnar like this.
  20. Regarding the much heralded stereo mix (around here anyways), I don't think there's anything that particularly distinguishes it as being anything great. It's simply that typical mid-60's 'three-point' stereo where vocals are centered and all other elements are either hard left or hard right. This of course was dictated by the recording format (4-track) and limited mixing console panning options.

    When listening, I'm always distracted by the lack of fill elements that typically occupy the 'in between' space in a modern stereo mix. To me it sounds awkward and unnatural. And key rhythmic elements like kick, snare and bass should always be more or less centered for maximum impact.

    Not having access to an original Parlophone mono, I'll take the 2014 mono vinyl as my go-to listening version.
     
  21. rednoise

    rednoise Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston
    Gotta say, I :love: "Mr. Moonlight". I think it's both very passionate and funny. I believe the humor was intentional, but for some reason, it seems most people don't take it in the spirit in which it was offered. A mis-calculation on their part maybe, but it reaches me.
     
  22. rednoise

    rednoise Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston
    I fear this term "fake" has been turned by recent events into something it's not.

    "Fake" means false, as in lies. Despite what certain prominent people would like us to believe, "fake" does NOT mean "an opinion I disagree with."
     
  23. johnny moondog 909

    johnny moondog 909 Beatles-Lennon & Classic rock fan Thread Starter

    Slane isn't I'll Be Back or one of those actually from AHDN. You have 1 too many Len-Mac originals.

    When I said every single song was good on BFS not even 1 lemon. I meant the 10 original songs cut during the BFS sessions. But I do like the covers also, of the 7 covers (including) Leave My Kitten. I really like 5 of them. The 2 I like least are Mr Moonlight & Rock N Roll Music. I don't hate them, they're ok, but for me the other 5 are better.

    Someone made a great point on previous page. Saying he loved BFS, because it's never been overplayed to death like lots of other Beatles album, it sounds fresh because of that.

    Back to the myths that they were short on original material for BFS & overly rushed. No Way.....

    Of the 17 songs cut as masters during BFS.. 10 are Len-Mac originals, 8 on the LP + the non LP single... Hardly out of originals.. I think all 10 are great..But in addition to those 10 originals.. just between June 64 through I think Sept 64, Len-Mac gave away 4 originals, good songs to other artists, all written by McCartney I think. Which is kind of a weird aside. ( In 1963) Lennon wrote 3-4 they gave away. At any rate, the following originals
    1. It's For You
    2. From A Window
    3. Nobody I Know
    4. I Don't Want To see U again

    All 4 of those were released as hit singles between June & Sept 1964 by Peter & Gordon & others. I think 2 were produced by Geo Martin w/ Lennon & or McCartney present.

    So they had original material available, good songs all 4 we're hits. They had 2 more from early 64 One & One is Two a hit in March 1964 for Mike Shannon, & in late Feb 1964 " World Without Love" was a big hit for Peter & Gordon. Plus there was a 7th original, a Harrison tune called "You Know What To Do" which they demoed while Ringo had tonsillitis & then shelved..

    So to be clear, they had 7 fresh originals, 4 which became hits for others during the BFS sessions, & 2 more that were hits for Peter & Gordon & Mike Shannon earlier that year. + The Harrison tune they abandoned after a studio demo with George, Paul & John.

    Certainly they could have taken at least 2-3 of those, or more & cut them for Beatles for sale.. Now maybe it's fair to say, they could have used 3-4 more days in the studio to cut masters in a few of those. But really they had at least 15 fresh originals. I wish to God an acetate of The Beatles would turn up with a couple of those. Done at least as well as That Means A Lot or One After 909. It's For You & From A Window would be great. Wikipedia says McCartney wrote from a Window, but it sure sounds like Lennon to me.

    Finally I'll say, stylistically, sonically, compositionally, BFS & Hard Day's Night sound more similar to each other, than any other Beatles albums. Sgt Pepper & Mystery Tour is close, but in every respect all the AHDN & BFS tracks are almost interchangable.

    I know AHDN has more Rickenbacker & 12 string, BFS is a bit more acoustic, & weary sounding, more bleak. But very similar & hands down I like BFS better, all the original songs are Greattt ! Whereas AHDN, is great but has 2-3 weak originals.

    They had tunes, good ones, for some inexplicable reason they cut Me Moonlight & covers, but ( far as I know) never laid down It's For You, From A Window, or Nobody I Know. Nuts just Nuts
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
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  24. TonyR

    TonyR Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    I don't think the CD is a fold down. I've never heard this claimed before, and it is the true mono mix according to Brennan's "Usenet Guide to Beatles Recordings".
     
    Dan The Man1 likes this.
  25. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    Oh that's just great. Get the Morlocks involved......;)
     
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