KISS: The Songs 1974-2012

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GodShifter, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    The best part of that is how Snyder immediately comes back with ' I've got a piece of pipe backstage I'd like to have you work on'.


    I remember staying up to watch that when it first aired. So classic.
     
    Wil1972, D.B., 905 and 8 others like this.
  2. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    Gene and Ace did a radio interview with Robert Klein around that same time. I remember it being equally hilarious but I've never been able to find audio.

    But here's a pic from the day. As you can see the other guest was Robin Williams. Interestingly, they're in their '77 outfits even though this is '79.

    [​IMG]
     
    Wil1972, SammyJoe, Tippy and 2 others like this.
  3. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    Wow, must have been early in '79. Also interesting that they came to a radio interview in full makeup and costume! Makes me think they were doing other promotional work for the band on that day (either that, or their appearance was well-publicized in advance and they were expecting a crowd).

    Are you going to give us your take on "Shock Me", vambo? I always enjoy reading your posts on KISS' songs, and am often amazed at how similar our perspectives are.
     
  4. dadonred

    dadonred Life’s done you wrong so I wrote you all this song

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    And Robin looks like the sane one in the bunch! (Ace looks cool!)
     
  5. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Shock Me - jeez let me ponder that one....5/5 - ACE FREHLEY LEAD GUITAR!!!!

     
  6. Paulo Alm

    Paulo Alm Forum Resident

    Location:
    In The Light
    Shock Me is right up there among the very best KISS songs, it's got everything going for it. Ace Frehley's debut as lead singer is such perfection, his voice being as distinct to the others' as it comes! It gave the band another side, and made it even bigger.

    Right, Peter Criss nearly steals the show though, his drumming so tasteful and 'for the song', I love how the drums sound too, Eddie Kramer is a master at that. Peter's unique musical input was vital to make KISS sound like KISS.

    The solo is really something that changed my life, and I can still relate to that feeling from so many years ago.... In fact, it's intact! What a thrill to listen closely to such a classic guitar solo, Ace's phrasing and tone are spotless! So fluid and melodic too... One of the most perfect and iconic guitar solos ever to be put on tape! Timeless!

    It is known whether Ace played all the instruments or are Paul and Gene on it too? Did they cut Shock Me live in the studio and then overdubbed? I can't remember coming across this info.

    Love the backing vocals too!
     
    D.B., SammyJoe, Tippy and 6 others like this.
  7. Exile On My Street

    Exile On My Street Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Does anyone else feel that 5:08-5:30 sounds like "Eruption"? I'm not a musician, just going by what I hear.

     
  8. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Re: Tom Snyder interview I was literally in tears from laughing so hard, that interview might be the best and most telling interview of any band ever. Ace is drunk cracking one liners, Peter is obviously high on something, Paul has no idea what angle to play and Gene (what a humourless, miserable guy trying to control everything). Tom Snyder is beside himself and probably going "this is freaking GOLD". No doubt the sparks flew backstage afterwards and if I was Ace and he said one word to me... let's put it this way guys like Gene have to be knocked down a few pegs. No wonder the other two rebelled hard against Gene and Paul, especially Gene, if he was like this all the time I would've cracked a nice Les Paul across the back of his head at some point on stage....
     
    Wil1972, D.B., SammyJoe and 4 others like this.
  9. 24voltsdc

    24voltsdc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Shock Me

    What can I say that hasn't been said already. One of my favorite songs ever. This is one of those songs that I can sing every note of Ace's solo. It's just so f@cking great! And even Peter brings his A game and lays down a great groove that fit's the song perfectly.
    The lyrics are a little goofy but that never bothered me. I just wonder if KISS would have taken off like they did if they wouldn't have scored big time in getting Ace in the band. I'm not sure they would have made it with anyone else. He's that good and important to the band's chemistry. Shock Me being a perfect example of that.
    What do you guys think? Would they have made it big without Ace? I don't think so.
     
    D.B., SammyJoe, Tippy and 5 others like this.
  10. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    Thanks for asking. I've been trying to figure out what to say about it. I'm honestly not that crazy about the song but I'm not sure why. I can go on endlessly about stuff I love, but I have a much harder time finding the words to describe why I don't like something.

    I think one of the main things is - and Ace does this in a lot of songs -- how he seems to have a hard time putting music and words together. So it goes riff-vocal-riff. It's kind of awkward. And he really does it a lot.

    But... Shock Me. I don't know. I like the guitar, love the drums, but overall the song doesn't do much for me. Trying to find the words but coming up short today.
     
    D.B., moops, SammyJoe and 5 others like this.
  11. Exile On My Street

    Exile On My Street Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I agree with Eddie Kramer that Ace was the heart and soul of the band. To me he was the glue that held it together. And after he left KISS became a technically better band, but their music lacked the personality that made them unique.
     
  12. 24voltsdc

    24voltsdc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Exactly!
     
  13. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    It's similar just in that it's a fast series of what are called hammer-ons and pull-offs done in sextuplet phrases (fast groups of six, basically, or you can think of it simply as fast groups of threes--triplets; "sextuplet" is basically a sixteenth note triplet-style grouping). Ace was definitely one of Eddie's influences.

    And really, I doubt there are many rock guitarists who came up in the later 70s through early to mid 90s who didn't count Ace among their influences, including that whole generation of hard rock and metal guitarists. KISS in general, and especially Ace and Peter, inspired a lot of people who were kids/teens in the mid 70s to pick up an instrument and play. I'd already been playing for about five and a half years when the first KISS album came out, but Peter is one of my influences as a drummer, too.
     
    D.B., moops, SammyJoe and 7 others like this.
  14. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    I'm coming to some pretty new conclusions for myself here in the Love Gun portion of our show. To reiterate..

    -I always judged Rock and Roll Over from the prism of 'it sounds live'; which I disagreed with and therefore allowed to taint my feelings about the material on the album.

    -Love Gun was my first KISS album and sits very highly still in my ratings.

    But I'm coming to realize that the sound of Love Gun is much more clunky than RARO. It's practically back to the first three albums in sound. I've read that Paul and Gene essentially produced their own songs on LG and Eddie Kramer took a backseat and maybe that's true. Love Gun is much more amateur sounding sonically than Destroyer or RARO.

    As with Got Love For Sale, Shock Me has an almost bolted together demo quality to it. I do really like the song but like a few others I don't think it's quite a KISS classic like its reputation.

    Today is the first time I've ever noticed that there are two things, besides the solo, that lift this song above being a total run of the mill tune. One is Ace's hands; the riffs are actually nothing really special but you can hear that Ace is doing subtle bends that really elevate it. The second is Paul's voice; try to hear the chorus without Paul's unique voice and it would be pretty boring.

    But there's nothing bad to be said about the solo, Ace nails it from start to finish.

    Once the solo ends you are immediately treated to Paul again. It's another chance to imagine how much lesser that last minute (and the whole song) would be without the Starchild.

    And for the record I have no problem at all with Ace's singing voice, it works great. He's quirky, as are his songs and his voice.

    Again I like the song, it's a strong addition to the album. I'm on the line of really liking it but thinking it is a bit over rated.

    Back to something @GodShifter said in his original write up.

    I think the solo albums are the reason Ace sings on Love Gun. I think Gene and Paul knew that they had to establish Ace as a singing voice before it would be reasonable to sell four solo records which they knew were coming very soon. I also believe that that is the main, if not the only, reason for the studio side of Alive II; to get another Ace vocal released to prepare the fans for the solo albums.
     
    PyroMessiah, moops, Drewstir and 8 others like this.
  15. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    I imagine this is at least a partial explanation then of why, on some days, you don't offer your opinion on the song of the day, even when you sometimes contribute in other ways. Makes sense...

    Always happy to read your contributions, even when we diverge, as we do on today's song!
     
  16. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    For me Ace becomes hit and miss because he's not a very good lyric writer. Not even that he isn't good, it seems like if a song is 4 minutes long he probably sets aside 2 minutes to write the words. He's so quirky that at times (his Unmasked material) it actually works. But when it doesn't work it's clunky in the extreme.
     
    D.B., npgchris, GodShifter and 2 others like this.
  17. Diamond Star Halo

    Diamond Star Halo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Agreed. Ace had the x factor that made Kiss sound unique. I don't think Kiss would have "made it" without him. Even though Gene and Paul came up with great songs, in the hands of another guitarist Kiss would have sounded more generic. It isn't just his soloing either - he is a fantastic rhythm player. Paul is by no means a bad player but Ace's rhythm guitar has so much more weight and gravitas. He had fantastic tone.

    That said, Ace needed Gene and Paul too. They had the songs, the drive, and the vocals.
     
    SpaceAce716, D.B., SammyJoe and 9 others like this.
  18. Diamond Star Halo

    Diamond Star Halo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    I completely agree with you. I also have a hard time explaining why Shock Me doesn't grab me as much as some of the other songs on the album.

    Like you say, Shock Me kind of sounds like a collection of riffs. The vocal melody is almost an afterthought. It's all about the riffs. Try singing the melody - there's not much there really. It doesn't really stand up on its own.

    IMO, Paul and Gene have more of a classic approach to the craft of songwriting, where the riffs tend to support the vocal melody, rather than the other way around. Take, for example, Christine Sixteen. You can hum the melody, and it works on it's own without any instrumentation. It's recognizable. You could simply sing and strum the chords on an acoustic guitar instead of playing riffs, and it would still be a good song.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
    PyroMessiah, moops, npgchris and 2 others like this.
  19. Exile On My Street

    Exile On My Street Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I totally agree, remove any one of the four elements and KISS is a different band. There is no question they all needed one another to varying degrees but even as a kid, something about Ace stood out to me. My second KISS record was Alive II and I remember just looking at the photos in the booklet and right there and then Ace became my favorite KISS member.

    There was just something about his character and persona that even those stills captured before I had ever seem him on television or performing in videos. And to this day, I still find his interviews to be the most entertaining and informative of the original four. Ace is such an honest guy, he wears his heart on his sleeve and that comes through in his playing.
     
    D.B., moops, 24voltsdc and 5 others like this.
  20. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    I don't know about informative, but entertaining, and honest, definitely! His attention to detail isn't exactly all that sharp! But that's obviously a part of his persona, and why he is as beloved as he is. Not only was he a perfect guitarist for the band, but his personality made for a nice contrast with the other guys, and it fed into the image of the characters they marketed themselves as.
     
  21. dave9199

    dave9199 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Not Ace but Gene. Hence the abstractness. Same with X-Ray Eyes on Dynasty.
     
    SpaceAce716 and dadonred like this.
  22. Diamond Star Halo

    Diamond Star Halo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Wow, I had no idea that was Gene. I assumed it was Ace. I love it!
     
  23. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    You're saying the lead on AH is Gene? I've never seen one thing that credits him for that.
     
    PyroMessiah likes this.
  24. Exile On My Street

    Exile On My Street Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    While Ace has forgotten quite a bit there are many, many interviews available on YT discussing songs/solos etc. that are very informative, that's more what I was referencing. The dirty laundry is another matter and you have five versions of that - Paul, Gene, Peter, Ace and the truth.
     
    SpaceAce716, D.B., npgchris and 3 others like this.
  25. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Is he tapping on that section? I can't tell sometimes especially if it is not large intervals. I think you are correct and it is hammer ons and pulloffs with the fretting hand only. I don't recall if Ace was a big tapper even after EVH.
     
    Terrapin Station likes this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine