KISS: The Songs 1974-2012

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GodShifter, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I love those Smashes songs...but we'll get to that later.
     
  2. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    Wow, this is the most critical I've ever seen you with KISS, so these must be bad! ;)

    I've always felt "Nowhere To Run" was an underrated track, so I'll be curious to see if you dislike it as well.
     
  3. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    About all I can say is... "(You Make Me) Rock Hard" makes me sponge soft!

     
  4. Paulo Alm

    Paulo Alm Forum Resident

    Location:
    In The Light
    Ace's musical presence seems to be sorely missed, so I post a bit of that killer look for good measure... and before it's too late!

    [​IMG]
     
  5. William Smart

    William Smart 21st Century Schizoid Man

    Location:
    North Haven, CT
    Right! I mean @Deuce66 gave them a good physical kinda spanking, but dammm that was like salt in the wound! Love it @Terrapin Station. Po jama people! Po jama people people..... Almost kinda describes KISS at this juncture .
     
  6. Paulo Alm

    Paulo Alm Forum Resident

    Location:
    In The Light
    Down on Your Knees - I've liked this song since '82, although I now understand its flaws. There's obviously a second rate AC/DC in there.

    But! I like Paul's vocals, it's kinda forced but effective. I think he was trying for a new vocal style, which eventually 'evolved' into the '80s and beyond.

    Eric's drumming is cool, the guitars are fine, the solo by Bob Kulick is ok, Nothing is 'great' here, though. That's for sure.

    This is where the new KISS really begins, and the connection with their past is now totally gone. No Peter, no Ace... and no Gene! Whatever happened to the band?
     
  7. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Yeah, I'll agree that Gene was more motivated on The Elder. By all accounts, the band was treading water until Bob Ezrin suggested they write a concept album. I think having a storyline pushed Gene to write, and he was probably more disciplined than he'd been in quite a while. As for the quality of those tunes, I think some of them are really great. Some of them are less great. "Only You" is the only thing for which he gets sole credit -- and I must admit that's a great song. I believe you're barking up the right tree in assuming that his co-writes during that period are not necessarily Gene's songs. Bob Ezrin (and even Eric Carr) probably deserve the bulk of the credit for those tunes.

    Regarding Unmasked, I have to say that my initial reaction to Gene's songs when I first heard that record (in 1988 or so) was probably the most honest I've ever felt about them -- that they're lazy and not very good. I've grown to love those songs over the decades, but even then, I feel like there has to be an asterisk next to each statement I make in defense of those songs. "Naked City" -- it took four people to write this song? I'm guessing Gene likely (as he has done many times before and since) slapped his name onto a finished song, changing only a word or two. I have no evidence with this song, so if someone knows otherwise, please feel free to correct me. "She's So European" -- I love the middle-eight so much that I am willing to overlook the stupid lyrics, and the fact that it's called "She's So European". "You're All That I Want" -- Okay, this song really is fantastic. But having heard the demo that's on the 2001 box set, I feel like it's safe to say that Vini Poncia really crafted this into the great little pop tune it is.

    Paul and Ace come through with some really solid material on Unmasked, so again, Gene's stuff kinda feels second-rate to me. I don't think Gene really knocked anything out of the park, whereas Paul comes through with "Shandi" (in my humble opinion) and "Tomorrow", and Ace delivers the goods big time with "Talk To Me".
     
  8. Diamond Star Halo

    Diamond Star Halo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    IMO the Get On Your Knees has a very early 80's pop metal vibe. It doesn't really sound much like Adams' later hits, at least not to me. Although Adams' later hits were very "mainstream rock," he (and co-writer Jim Vallance) were very skilled and prolific tunesmiths. Get On Your Knees is nowhere near as good as Adams' big hits, like Run To You. It is just a filler song looking for a hook.
     
  9. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Oh, GOD.
     
  10. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    Down On Your Knees somehow doesn't even sound like a KISS song. I don't know why. We've had plenty of songs with only one or two members, plenty of songs that didn't seem up to par. This song is certainly below par, well below, and seems like a total swing and a miss. Nothing describes this song better than 'generic'. On his worst day Paul should be able to write five better songs than this.

    This is probably as good an example as any that I don't believe that Paul and Gene are that far apart in quality songs in the 1980's. I would admit that Paul is better over that period, but the lowest of the lows are also by him. Gene may come up second but not by much and considering that the story is that Gene was absent and Paul was giving it his all, well, that says something too.

    Presumably they knew they were about to enter the studio to record Creatures of the Night so maybe they just didn't want to give up any good songs for this compilation?! I really don't know but we're off to a bad start on these four new songs.

    I've listened to Down On Your Knees 8 times in the last few days and I couldn't tell you how the solo goes. I'm not down on my knees, but I am down on this song. One of the worst we've done!
     
  11. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    If I could get my mind around this??? MIND. BLOWN!!!!!

    "If you don't believe there's a price for this sweet paradise, remind me to show you the scars."

    Well played sir.:shtiphat:
     
    Giant Hogweed and William Smart like this.
  12. ejluther

    ejluther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Newtown, CT
    Trivia: Paul and Gene aren't the only KISS members to write with Bryan Adams - Eric Carr did, too, with "Don't Leave Me Lonely" which ended up on Adams' Cuts Like A Knife LP...
    Don't Leave Me Lonely - Wikipedia
     
  13. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    If that song was presented for Animalize or later on it would've made one of those albums. With Creatures and LIU's having mostly strong material, I can see why it didn't make it in 82-83.
     
  14. Cooks420

    Cooks420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY
    I'm with Curveboy on this - the two new tracks on "Smashes ..." are criminally underrated. But, we'll get to those a bit later.
     
  15. Juggsnelson

    Juggsnelson Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island
    How anyone can hate "Let's Out the X..." is beyond me!!
     
  16. Tippy

    Tippy Well-Known Member

    Down On Your Knees

    Hmmm. I see people have compared this song unfavorably to "Let's Put The X In Sex" and "Odyssey."

    I like both of those songs quite a bit, so I suppose that's all I need to say about this tune. :)
     
  17. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    We discussed this back during the UNMASKED portion of our program. According to Bob Kulick, the lyrics are largely Gene's. It doesn't sound like Gene had much of anything to do with it musically, but the lyrics were mostly his. And lyrically, it's a pretty nice change of pace for the normally self-obsessed Demon!

    (You and I see "You're All That I Want" quite differently, as I think Poncia took a fairly strong piece of work and watered it down somewhat. I'll take the demo any day!)
     
  18. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    But when you're writing fewer songs than the other guy, doesn't that skew things somewhat in your favor? In other words, if as many Gene songs had been recorded during the no-makeup period as Paul's tunes, doesn't it stand to reason that those extra Gene tunes would have truly been bottom of the barrel? I would think so.

    I'm definitely not excusing Paul's wretched songs of this period, but it seems logical that he would have some absolute lows, as he was being forced to submit more songs per album than I'm sure he wanted to.

    Which is yet another reason to lament the departure of Ace. Imagine each of these albums with 2 or 3 Ace tunes apiece, and the 2 or 3 weakest Paul/Gene tunes gone. Instant upgrade!
     
  19. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    Yeah I'd have to agree, while I do like a couple more Paul songs in that 84-90, I think the idea that it was some landslide victory is bulls***. He had more than his fair share of ****ty songs, and I actually counted how many songs I like from either of them on each album during that period:
    Animalize:
    Paul-4
    Gene-0
    Asylum:
    Paul-3
    Gene-3
    Crazy Nights:
    Paul-0
    Gene-1
    Smashes:
    Paul-0
    Hot In the Shade:
    Paul-1
    Gene-1
    Overall:
    Paul-8
    Gene-5
    For a guy that wasn't giving a s***, that's not bad
     
  20. dave9199

    dave9199 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Fixed.
     
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  21. dave9199

    dave9199 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Durham, NC
    The Killers songs for me is where Kiss started to be generic. While songs on Unmasked kind of felt in that direction, they still sounded like Kiss somewhat. I feel Down On Your Knees and Partners In Crime are the beginning of the generic songs. I don't know much past Lick It Up but from reading these posts it sounds like there is more genericness to come. They were of their time with 70's hard rock and behind the times with 80's hard rock. Go figure. Had they started in the 80's with Creatures they would be looked at as of their time because there was no genre shifting beforehand. I would say Creatures is of it's time but when you water that down it's generic.
     
  22. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    No question even one song per side (thinking of vinyl) from Ace would have been a welcome change for the listener.

    As to the first part, are the 80's albums skewed in favor of having more Paul songs than Gene songs? Without looking I assumed they were largely 50/50 or at least pretty close. I don't think there were 7 Paul songs and 3 Gene songs on any album.

    I'm not even criticizing Paul. Everybody is going to write some lousy songs, and I know for sure that I love a few of his tunes that are going to go through the ringer when we get to them (cough *My Way* cough). I was making more of a comparison between the two guys; Paul didn't write 20 I Stole Your Love's in the 80's and Gene didn't write 20 Burn Bitch Burn's either.

    Anyway, I'm gonna walk like I walk and talk like I talk all through these crazy nights of classic KISS songs!!:help::D
     
  23. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    OK so while we are on the last hour or so of Down On Your Knees. I was thinking some of the worst songs in the 70's: See You In Your Dreams, Tomorrow and Tonight, and Rockin' In The USA. Is this a worse song than those songs? I personally don't think so. It's generic yes but I think those songs are worse. I wonder if the folks here that hate this song grew up with them in the 70's vs. the 80's and if that skews the opinion? I'm not saying the opinion is wrong just trying to get a sense on the strong dislike. I don't find the song polarizing like an Odyssey but it seems these first 2 Killer songs are to some. :)

    PS- I discovered them during Crazy Nights so I have a soft spot for those 87-88 songs but understand how a lot of folks could hate them growing up in the 70's or the 80's. I just find the Killers songs very non-abrasive and a step in the right direction but in no way on par with Creatures or Lick It Up tracks for the most part.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  24. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    I'm thinking of filing a class action lawsuit against a LOT of you over Tomorrow and Tonight. That song is a classic and should be respected as such!:wantsome::D

    I love See You In Your Dreams too. I'll give you Rockin' In the USA, the biggest hunk a 1977 junk since Luke saw the Millennium Falcon.

    I got into KISS 'round about when you did and still I'd say Down On Your Knees is the worst of the four songs you're talking about.

    Generic Paul Stanley is instant poison. I can support bad Paul Stanley but he's too talented to be generic.
     
  25. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    But that is where SUBJECTIVE comes in...I think See You In Your Dreams and Tomorrow and Tonight are fine songs...
    Rockin' In The USA isn't bad, it's just s throw-away.

    But if you want to talk my opinion of BAD*...Down On Your Knees is light years better than Dirty Livin' (my high water mark for bad songs, never mind bad KISS songs...)


    *not to be confused with the fantastic song by W.A.S.P,
     

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