KISS: The Songs 1974-2012

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GodShifter, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    I do think we're overlooking that (at least according to Wikipedia) Killers wasn't a U.S. release. So why would KISS waste material they thought was great on a compilation record that wasn't even being released in their home country when they knew they were less than six months from releasing a full album that they knew was a make or break affair? I haven't heard Paul comment but it strikes me that any new song on Killers wasn't considered that good by Mr. Stanley. Which would seem completely understandable although better left unsaid.
     
  2. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    Well, from ANIMALIZE thru HOT IN THE SHADE, I get 27 Paul tunes, and 19 Gene tunes, so that's probably skewed more than you thought. Furthermore, Gene leaned on Bruce to co-write several of those 19 tunes. Obviously, Paul had plenty of co-writers, as well. They were 50/50 on LICK IT UP, but I left those out because Vinnie's imprint is all over that album, anyway. My original point was, if during this period we'd have gotten 8 additional Gene songs, I"m fairly certain a handful of them would have been downright embarrassing.

    I look forward to reading your views on this period. Could it be that you'll end up liking more of Paul's tunes than I will? ;)
     
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  3. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    Wow! I definitely look forward to debating this album with you. Hopefully we can get you to give a few more of these tunes at least half a break!

    :cheers:
     
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  4. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    Yeah, 27 to 19 is a bit more of a difference than I would have thought although without the two Smashes songs it seems like it's probably only one extra Paul song per album. Niggling point of course.

    Paul was in his second decade of writing so he's automatically going to be further from the magic source. Also he spent a lot of the 80's doing more 'writing to order' instead of trusting that Paul Stanley didn't need to mix in DLR and Jon Bon Jovi; he was already a unique figure with a unique worldview and skillset and his songs would have been better served in the long run by trusting himself. Of course the real world of bills to pay and poor investments etc can't be overlooked.

    I grew up in the 80's so even the stupid stuff can win me over so I may be Team Gene and Team Paul for several albums. Certainly you and I are going to have an easier ride than @Musicman1998 , seems he's got some tough listening days ahead. :D
     
  5. npgchris

    npgchris Forum Resident

    Yes, this is basically the bottom line. This was stuff that Polygram wanted for the overseas market, so no doubt Paul's attitude was "let's throw them these table scraps"! Although he has said complimentary things about "Nowhere To Run". I don't think any of the other 3 he's particularly fond of, although "Partners In Crime" was considered for CREATURES at one point, which I find slightly surprising.
     
  6. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    There's so much talk in the KISS and Sell book about how they needed to fake that Ace was still around because of the Polygram contract that it blows me away that Paul, Gene and Bill Aucoin (though he was on his way out) wouldn't have insisted on Gene being represented with at least one new song. You go from a contractual obligation that three specific guys must be present to all four new songs being from only one guy? That's a real disconnect for me in all this.

    And given that there's a pretty good consensus in this thread that Gene could bolt together 3 ideas at any time to come up with songs I can't believe he couldn't have done so at a moments notice for Killers.

    Very odd to me.
     
  7. dave9199

    dave9199 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Durham, NC
    You answered your own question with you second paragraph.
     
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  8. MagneticNorthpaw

    MagneticNorthpaw Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I'm A Legend Tonight
    As a teen, I liked this song quite a bit. Now, it feels quite light - or, ain't quite right, if you will. I like the half-time transition to full speed, but the riff isn't all that great or memorable. I actually like the variation that accompanies the verses, almost a Stonesy kind of riff. This track may have the worst background vocal sound of any KISS song - it seems to predate the digitized, key changed sheen of Def Leppard backing vocals from Pyromania onward. "Live to win" attitude Paul is not my favorite Paul. :sigh:

    Down On Your Knees
    As others have said, Paul seems to be attempting to channel Brian Johnson and/or Diamond Dave-era VH sans hooks. I'm pretty sure it's a heavily compressed Eric drum track - listen carefully to the cymbal bell hits on the choruses. They aren't a single consistent tone, which you'd expect from a drum machine. Paul, I am so ready to rock...but this does not rock. This one - and "Partners In Crime" - are just boring to my ear.

    I would anticipate consensus will find "Nowhere To Run" to be the best of the new Killers tracks. By all accounts, it predated The Elder and, to my ear, features Bob Kulick veering closest to Ace territory in the solo. It's chastening then to compare the other three tracks with, say, the "Deadly Weapons" demo, which also predated The Elder and features a great Ace solo. They were trying to "rock" again, but the material was trite and they didn't have Ace to prop up mediocre songs. Given that Paul did the vast majority of the best lead work on the three prior albums, it's strange that they felt the need to go back to Bob Kulick. But, honestly, most of these songs can be declared dead before the solo ever arrives.
     
  9. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA


    NOWHERE TO RUN 1982 (Stanley) (4:32)

    By the time the KISS reconvened at the Record Plant Studios in Los Angeles in 1982, “Nowhere to Run” was the only complete song the band had. It’s actually the only “new” song on Killers that features Gene on bass and background vocals. Paul states the song is autobiographical, in a sense, in that’s about an affair he was having with a woman with who, ultimately, went back to her previous situation. In a sense, “Nowhere to Run” was Paul’s “musical letter to her”.

    The song itself harks back to the 1978 song “Tonight, You Belong to Me” in terms of its chord structure. There’s also a similar feel to it with the intro acoustic guitars and the bridge at 2:50 where it returns to that similar motif. “Nowhere to Run” is a fairly stock hard rock tune with heavy background vocals and lots of lead flourishes from guitarist, Bob Kulick. It also features some Paul’s highest falsetto vocals ever that almost border on parody in terms of how they’re placed and how they’re pulled off. They sound really out of place to me (almost comical in some respects).

    Certainly for Killers “Nowhere to Run” is probably the best song of the four that were included on the compilation. Paul was disappointed with the production on the tune as he wanted the guitars to sound fuller, bigger, and in the listener’s face. This might explain why it was one of the songs from Killers that was remixed in 1989. It was also the first song from the compilation to be released in the United States. Outside of “I’m a Legend Tonight” the rest were released as on promotional issues.

    Despite the rumors that “Nowhere to Run” was written for The Elder that is not the case (though there are some collector’s issues that have this song run segue into “Just a Boy”) as the song was written after the The Elder sessions were finished.

    To me this song is only “okay” and not much more than that. To me, it sounds like something that would sit comfortably on Paul’s solo album from 1978, and I’d rate it pretty fairly if that had been the case. It being a KISS song, however, “Nowhere to Run” gets judged with a bit more critical eye and, for me, it barely makes the cut. To me, it sounds like a dull Def Leppard song or, failing that, even a Bryan Adams tune. It’s very poppy with lackluster production. I find it pretty unremarkable.
     
  10. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA


    Paul doing "Nowhere to Run" on acoustic at a private gig in 2015.
     
  11. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    NOWHERE TO RUN

    When I first got Killers…I liked this one but was so not into Paul’s new vocal abilities. He obviously got some lessons between The Elder and Creatures, and this was his real intro of his newfound power.

    That said, after years of listening to it, I think it’s great. Especially just before the lead. Then he gets to the falsetto part…which could have been done better. Not sure why he would throw that little bridge in after what he just went through on The Elder.
     
  12. Sandinista

    Sandinista Forum Resident

    Nowhere To Run has the best chorus. Classic Paul descending line - been done before but, since it's a nice run and he nails it, I'm cool with it.

    Without a doubt, this is the best of the 3 Killers songs so far - I've never heard any of these prior to this thread, btw.

    This ain't bad all - that's a hell of high not he pierces the sky with right before the solo.
     
  13. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    Nowhere to Run:
    Yeah, it does sound like something on Paul's solo album. Then again I didn't love that record, I merely liked it. Sure it was better than Peter and Gene's albums, but it was missing something for me, and this song doesn't quite feel that way to me, although granted most of the 78 songs are better. I like the acoustics at the beginning, they kind of remind me of Bargain by The Who, and it's nice to hear Gene finally show up. Solid guitar from Kulick, an admittedly pretty damn good solo. Overall, I enjoy this song, the best new song on here, as low a bar as that is. On a scale of one to ten, I give it Revenge being the best after Lick It Up
     
  14. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Bob on Nowhere To Run:

    Bob: Well, “Nowhere To Run” for me was Paul Stanley. I mean, he just put down this kicka** vocal on that track which made that, to me, this really standout track on that album. Even on the 89 tour, he just never did it, we rehearsed it but we never did it. It’s a great song but it’s just a hard song to sing.
     
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  15. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    He sounds great on this version:
     
  16. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    The remixed version found on the box set and First Kiss, Last Licks. It is claimed it is on one of the CD single versions of Forever but I haven't found it. I purchased two different despite the claims of it being it being on there but it is not. Needless to say the drums a bit boomy and bass is a bit more prominent but if I never pointed that out you would never notice a difference. Partners in Crime remix is very noticeable.

     
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  17. SizzleVonSizzleton

    SizzleVonSizzleton The Last Yeti

    The first few guitar notes of Nowhere To Run sound a lot like Hard As A Rock by AC/DC, or I guess vice versa. While one is electric and one is acoustic, both have that For Those About To Rock kinda picked intro. Maybe not very surprising given it's 1982.

    Nowhere To Run is hardly a gem but on this set of four songs it's practically C'mon and Love Me. There is a sense of this is where Paul really started shredding his voice and not singing for the song but singing to prove he could. Which is so bizarre because anybody that was ever going to dig Paul Stanley already knew he was a tremendous vocalist.

    This is a fairly nothing song to me. I think it's the vocal that grabs my attention and feels worth commenting on. Solo is okay, starts off a bit Ace-ish to my ears.

    My mind might be playing tricks on me because of the lyrical content and that the titles are phonetically similar but does anyone else get a real A Million To One vibe from this song? I feel like they sound very similar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
  18. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    The remix is supposed to be on the Canadian Forever CD single...but I've never owned it.
     
  19. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    NOWHERE TO RUN
    As I said earlier this my favorite song from Killer and just one of my favorites from Kiss. Probably not a Top 20 favorite but maybe Top 50. I agree Paul pushes a bit too much on this. We get it Paul you can sing and maybe even took some singing lessons at this point. That's the only fault I find with this song. It's a great breakup song and can't find any cheese factor in this. It's a well-crafted Paul song I think. Love Bob's lead breaks and Eric's double bass drumming. This has been performed live electrically and less than a handful of times acoustically. As it was stated, it may have been too hard for Paul to sing but based on how the rest of the 80's went it seems it would be in his wheelhouse as there are bunch of other songs like this with some Paul histrionics.
     
  20. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    I had it and it wasn't on there.
     
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  21. Paulo Alm

    Paulo Alm Forum Resident

    Location:
    In The Light
    The chorus reminds me of this one from The Warriors movie soundtrack, 1979.

     
  22. Sandinista

    Sandinista Forum Resident

    You Warriors are good. Real good.

    The best.

    :D
     
  23. Cheevyjames

    Cheevyjames Forum Resident

    Location:
    Graham, NC
    Nowhere to Run

    Intro sounds like AC/DC, For Those About to Rock. Paul's voice is a bit more screechy than I like. Like the previous two, it still sounds like his rock songs are stuck in Unmasked mode. Not awful, but not amazing. Production is good enough and the song's fine, but it's pretty forgettable. It's just plain. Certainly better than the last two from Killers, but that's not saying much.
     
  24. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    None of the new tracks on "Killers" really do much for me, but I think they might have if they were in a different context. Surround these tracks with a few new cuts from Ace and Gene and maybe I'd be to be more appreciative of them. They aren't bad, exactly, but they are kinda lost at sea for me. They need something to compliment them.
     
  25. Tippy

    Tippy Well-Known Member

    Nowhere To Run

    As other's have said, this one is all about Paul's singing. I like it, so I like this one as well. I do think that whenever KISS blends acoustics into a song it is almost automatically a "better" song because acoustic guitars are generally outside the norm for KISS.


    Unrelated, but wow, you people are just crushing me lately--First someone disparages "Odyssey" and "Let's Put The In Sex," and now "Rockin' In The USA" and "Tomorrow And Tonight," another pair of songs I love.

    I may need therapy when I read the comments for "Read My Body." :D
     

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