Kraftwerk More Influential Than the Beatles

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jamo spingal, Jun 16, 2017.

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  1. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    ... or said, "Who's that there you're talkin' about, young 'un? Speak up, I'm a little deaf".
     
  2. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    Popularity and influence are not the same thing, but they're directly correlated.

    Innovation and influence, however, are NOT correlated.

    VU's influence is ridiculously overestimated, by the way. When I first became aware of people arguing that VU were influential on something like a Beatles level, which I became aware of via the Internet, maybe 10 years ago or so, I made a point for awhile of asking musicians I was working with (and I work with a bunch of different people, in different genres--as for one I do a lot of studio work) what they thought of VU. Most had never heard them, and many weren't even familiar with the name, or they were only vaguely familiar with the name. More knew Lou Reed, but most didn't know much of Lou Reed's work beyond "Walk on the Wild Side". (And John Cale and Nico sometimes rang a bell, but folks were usually not familiar with any of their work.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
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  3. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    The age thing is getting quite tongue in cheek.

    "It's my go to mantra when I got nothing else to say!"
     
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  4. Wombat Reynolds

    Wombat Reynolds Jimmy Page stole all my best riffs.

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA

    :biglaugh:


    without reading this thread, because its monday and I'm tired... has anyone considered the almost certainty, that Kraftwerk was influenced by the Beatles? Because just about anybody their age, was. So in light of that..... um, no, the Beatles are more influential than any other BAND in the last 60 years.
     
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  5. No actually I'm not. I did note that there are pockets of influence that do continue to resonate however the two are not mutually exclusive. The larger your audience, the larger potential for influence you have. You reach more people and, as a result, more musicians. There's no doubt that Kraftwerk were influential but I don't think they reached the same large audience in their time as The Beatles, The Stones, etc. in theirs. It can be measured in terms of copy groups and other groups that end up being signed and recording, releasing material. It's not a popularity contest per se but, in a sense, the popularity insures that a specific act reaches a larger audience. I would also point out that there are those who are influenced by other artists who were influenced by the "patient zero" band indirectly--they are influenced CDs by those more popular or better known than the original influence.

    Brian Eno's comment about how The Velvet Underground may have sold few albums but all of them established bands. Does that mean The Velvet Underground had more influence, than, say The Greatful Dead? No but it does indicate that those that were influenced by the VU may have been more likely to establish a band.

    I'd also point out that certain bands are more popular at certain periods than others. The Beatles were on the outs during much of the 70's Even though the individual band members were recording solo albums but they did come around in popularity again in the 80's and bands that had quietly continued to listen to them or who bore their influence continued on or established new bands.

    The bottom line is that the larger your audience, the larger the audience for influence of other musicians. It doesn't mean one is better or that someone is knocking the influence of one of those bands but it is a more realistic assessment of reach . While The Cars, Talking Heads from the past and recent popular groups all bare the hallmarks of influence of Kraftwerk, there's also directly or indirectly influence by other bands that could be equally as influential. Keep in mind that even those bands that influenced by other sources, may not be superficially evident but current groups who want to reach an audience use whatever style is most popular at the moment to reach an audience just as those that are more traditional and use groups from the further past to influence their sound.
     
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  6. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Beatles for the 'mechanics' I guess (the idea of a self contained unit writing their own songs) and Kraftwerk for the music and style (the sounds and construction)?
     
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  7. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Has any band outside the US ever been influenced by the Grateful Dead?
     
  8. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Worth repeating...
     
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  9. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    If ANYTHING, the Beatles by a LONG shot...when it comes to "music".
     
  10. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    You posted 9 times in the recent 2017 Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame thread where Kraftwerk are one of the very candidates to be considered and they're listed in the very first post.
     
  11. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Americans probably have a unique perspective when it comes to Beatlemania...

    Kraftwerkmania never quite took off.

    That does NOT mean that Kraftwerk wasn't influential.

    In a very narrow way.

    They found their niche.

    And definitely stuck with it...
     
  12. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    Here's an example of a non-US band that has cited the Dead as an influence:

     
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  13. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Yes, to generalize hugely, Americans have a very singular relationship with the Beatles, bordering on the obsessional, which I'm sure is connected to JFK/ the end of (long) 50s.
     
  14. dadonred

    dadonred Life’s done you wrong so I wrote you all this song

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    No, but possibly under the influence...
     
  15. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    This is a really funny thread! :biglaugh:
     
  16. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    The answer to a question like that is usually a Japanese band :winkgrin:
     
  17. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Yes, the Beatles are something to obsess over.

    We have to spend our Eurodollars on SOMETHING!
     
  18. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    Yeah, there were definitely influential. But it seems ridiculous to say that they were as influential as the Beatles. Again, I'd not argue that the Beatles are the most influential--I wouldn't argue that anyone was the most influential artist, partially because there's absolutely no way to know this. It would require impossible survey data.

    But yeah, Kraftwerk have certainly been influential. Tons of artists have been influential. It would probably be difficult to find artists who haven't been influential, and influence increases with popularity (especially among musicians). But heck, even unsigned artists are influential. I've been influenced by some unsigned artists myself.
     
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  19. I hav no idea. It was an example. You could put Thr Kinks or The Who in there instead i would point out, however, that even groups like The Waterboys were influenced in Their aesthetic by bands like The Grateful Dead. You can't measure influence simply by the sound of a band.
     
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  20. dadonred

    dadonred Life’s done you wrong so I wrote you all this song

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    You just argued 6 posts prior that popularity and influence are the same thing "among musicians"?? But no, popularity and influence are rarely correlated; frequently, there is a strong trend among the "most important" influencers in which they are under the radar, typically for years/decades past their 'influence.'

    Successful innovation and influence are highly correlated, btw.
     
  21. I don't think, at this stag, it has anything to do with JFK for younger folks. I was three when JFK was assassinated and didn't comprehend what it meant. I still enjoyed hearing the music when I was five, etc. because it communicated to me. That also doesn't has plain The success of the band world wide or in the U.K. They came at the right time, regardless of which cultural crossroads they hit. It was the new vs. the old.
     
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  22. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

     
  23. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I would agree with that, whilst also adding something about the Beatles use of the studio and their compositional skills, both of which have been mentioned by people as diverse as Kanye, John Cale and Radiohead.
     
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  24. Synthfreek

    Synthfreek I’m a ray of sunshine & bastion of positivity

    People who dismiss the entirety of dance and electronic music culture of the last 40 years will not be able to acknowledge their importance and influence...period.
     
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  25. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Hmm... maybe in Germany... :confused:
     
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