Steve Whitmire (Kermit the Frog and Ernie since 1990) no longer with the Muppets.

I was also talking about the twitter statement and how that isn't right either.

 

You're saying that right after saying we don't have enough information?

And have you never seen reactions to someone "rocking the boat"?

 

Yep, especially when you see that Mr. Whitmire complained quite a bit during the (horribly-reviewed and badly-rated) Muppets revival TV series last year. Again, I think there's multiple sides to this story, but the bottom line is that actors are hired hands like everybody else, and there are limits as to how far you can argue with the people who own the company. I like to think there's a reasonable compromise between just rolling over and doing everything the boss tells you without question, vs. complaining every five minutes and offering too many suggestions about how things should be done.

I think Steve had previously implied that he was Jim Henson's hand-picked replacement as Kermit, but Henson's daughter pointed out that he was actually chosen by Brian Henson, who was running a lot of the business for The Jim Henson Company during the 1990s. From a distance, it seems like the guy who took several of Jim Henson's voice jobs started believing that he also was owed more respect and more responsibility as somebody who made creative decisions as Jim Henson did.

I don't have a problem with The Muppets changing over time and maybe embracing some modern conventions from everyday life. But I also think they need to hold on to some kind of innocence and optimism, which is always what they had in the 1970s and 1980s. The ABC show last year was horrendous, and I think there was a lot of very, very bad thinking with that (none of which was Whitmire's fault at all, since there were other writers and producers in charge).

BTW, 20 years ago I worked on Muppets Treasure Island for Disney, and I thought Whitmire did a very good job in all the voices he did (including Kermit). And the movie did have a few "edgy" moments that I think were a bit more intense than what we were used to seeing in movies like this. But that was two decades ago, and a lot has changed since then.

 

I said that we don't have enough information to make an global, absolute statement like "it's just plain wrong." That doesn't mean we don't have grounds to speculate. I was taking issue with the expression of certainty in the post I quoted, not with all speculation in general.

Regarding Cheryl Henson... I think it's plausible that there might be some contractual or financial reason the family would agree to publicly back the firing, even if they privately disagreed with it. But if that were the case, I don't think it's plausible that Cheryl Henson would go out of her way to trash Whitmire publicly. Her facebook posting suggests a level of personal feeling about this that is beyond contractual.

 

And we also don't know how he was expressing those complaints... his demeanor, attitude, etc. The Disney statement labelled him "hostile." I would think they must have some reason to use a term that severe.

 

I have seen actors get surprisingly emotional, combative, and difficult on the set, particularly when they're totally invested in the part and believe (rightly or wrongly) that they have to "protect" the character they're creating with their performance. Making movies and TV shows is a collaborative art, but sometimes, the producers and execs don't want to collaborate too much. At some point, you have to accept that they're running the show.

 

He apparently refused to accept an understudy according to the Hensons. Hmm.

Steve Whitmire, Lisa Henson, Brian Henson Speak Out « Muppet Fans Who Grew Up – Tough Pigs

If true, that would have been a very bad decision on his part for a number of reasons.

 

It never reflects well on a company (or person) when, only after negative feedback for firing someone do the "oh my god, this guy has been horrible for YEARS!" excuses come into play.

Even Brian Henson all of a sudden after 25 years or whatever it is offers Whitmire kind of a weird backhanded semi-compliment for his work as Kermit.

If this guy not only was a pain for years to work with, and *also* all of a sudden was doing only an okay-ish to generally-good job (my takeaway from Brian Henson's comments) or has been biffing the job for years (my takeaway from Cheryl Henson's comments), why did no one take action nor even utter a word about this?

It sounds like Whitmire was probably "difficult" as many performers are. And who knows, maybe he was *so* difficult that maybe they did have to get someone else.

But it makes your company look bad when you admit, by way of complaining about the job the guy has done for years, that you essentially kind of lied a bit by omission all these years by not saying anything critical (especially the people in the operation who aren't working for Disney and are free to say whatever they want). Either that, or they're being unnecessarily cruel in their attack on Whitmire, especially his performance.

Cheryl Henson's comments in particular are kind of puzzling. Yes, I know Whitmire's "performance" has nuance to it, but at least *some* of her complaints seem to be things that would be dictated as much by elements outside of Whitmire's control, especially writing and direction. In particular, Cheryl Henson's characterization of Kermit *does* line up to some degree with his portrayal in the recent ABC TV show. But the out-of-character nature of Kermit *as written* was apparently exactly what Whitmire was "giving notes" about and complaining about. She just seems to blame him more than the writers/directors/showrunners, etc.

*Horrible* PR on the part of the Henson family and Disney (though I'm not sure Disney is wanting the Hensons to come out like this, hard to say), as if tearing Whitmire a new one in public could *possibly* make them look anything but worse.

I'm stunned Disney and everybody involved didn't just stick to the party line of wishing Whitmire well and moving on. Time and time again, it has been shown that the general public doesn't mind too much that Disney is kind of a soulless, cut-throat, money-making machine. They *could have* more or less gotten away with gently throwing Whitmire under the bus and just moving on. But by throwing Whitmire under the bus and then having "unnamed sources" and Henson family members back over the guy over and over, they're making it worse.

Again, I say all of this acknowledging that maybe Whitmire did have to go if he was that negative about everything. But something else was possibly at play if Whitmire is telling the truth that he essentially offered to shut his mouth and play ball and yet they still canned him.

And again, I also have to say that if indeed a lot of the recent kerfuffles had to do with the ABC "The Muppets" show, Disney doesn't exactly have a lot of credibility, as Whitmire was potentially fighting for some of the same things that TV critics and Muppets fans were when they started watching that series.

 

Apparently not only did he refuse an understudy, but was not willing to do "B-level appearances" like ribbon-cuttings that an understudy could have done in his place. Not sure how many of those there are but I can see that being a problem.

The story makes me sad all around. I'm sure the truth is somewhere between their two versions, but I wish they had worked this out some other way.

 

What's also confusing is that they claim Whitmire refused an understudy. How long ago was that? Why didn't they fire him then if he refused?

If they directed Whitmire to do events and he refused, how long ago was that, and why didn't they fire him for refusing to do that?

Also, if he *never* had an understudy, bringing Vogel in indicates they feel they can have a new Kermit without the benefit of Whitmire's direct training. And if *that's* the case, why didn't they just send in alternate Kermits for gigs Whitmire didn't want to do?

I don't buy that Disney was ever beholden to the whims of Whitmire as much as the Disney and Henson family comments seem to suggest. It makes me think they're exaggerating their case. *Years* of outright insubordination would make no sense.

I'm still sensing this might boil down to Whitmire being "difficult" and sticking his nose in things too much. Which is all on him in that he shouldn't be surprised by being fired.

But his being naïve in thinking he couldn't be fired doesn't necessarily mean Disney's decision to fire him was a good move for the brand. And I can say for sure that Disney's handling of this (the New York Times article essentially indicates that Disney tried to actively encourage producers to give interviews with the paper to criticize Whitmire, with the paper refusing because the source refused to be named) along with the Henson family's has not helped things.

 

Sounds to me like more of a pride thing than an ego thing...though I can see where it might be a fine line. Being the voice of an iconic figure in entertainment must carry incredible pressure. I would say that this boils down to an Art (Steve) vs. Business (Disney) situation.

 

Well, if Disney's/the Hensons' account is to be believed, they have been taking action for the past several years. They claim that Whitmire has been given repeated feedback about the various issues which he has ignored.

It really wouldn't have made sense (or been appropriate) for them to have talked publicly about any ongoing issues with Whitmire if they were trying behind the scenes to work those issues out. Going public with performance issues/problems regarding employees isn't an effective way to resolve them... typically it winds up making things worse. Generally, once a dispute like this goes public, it's all over.

I disagree. If Disney had said nothing other than a bland "we wish Steve well" then you'd have Whitmire out there generating all kinds of publicity, saying he was fired for no reason by the big soulless corporation. I don't think it looks great for Disney to be attacking Whitmire, but I think it would look worse if they just let his characterization of the situation stand without making any attempt to explain their side.

Perhaps because they knew firing him would generate a sh!tstorm of bad publicity, and they were hoping it could be avoided and the problems could be resolved?

I'm not saying I believe Disney's story is 100% truth, but if there is any truth to their basic claims (that there's been attitude issues with Whitmire for years, and they've made attempts to address these with no success) then I can understand why they've acted the way they did.

 

This is getting very ugly. Brian Henson is now saying:

"I have to say, in hindsight, I feel pretty guilty that I burdened Disney by not having recast Kermit at that point because I knew that it was going to be a real problem. And I have always offered that if they wanted to recast Kermit, I was all for it, and I would absolutely help. I am very glad we have done this now. I think the character is better served to remove this destructive energy around it.

"So there was a lot of complexities to Kermit that have been kind of falling away, and I do believe Matt Vogel can access that energy really well. And Matt is a very good performer. And I believe that in protecting Kermit going forward, Matt will do a really wonderful job. I think the fans should not be so scared of change. Steve did Kermit for a very long time — I would say for far too long. And the character was no longer being serviced by Steve performing Kermit."

Jim Henson's Son Explains Why Kermit Actor Was Replaced

 

What's interesting is that nobody at Henson is saying they had any problem with Steve for the years he was working with them before the Disney buyout.

 

Not so. In the Brian Henson interview Vidiot linked above, Henson does say there were problems with Whitmire in the years prior to the buyout, though he doesn't provide many specifics:

"Despite being a fantastic technical puppeteer and impersonator, Henson said Whitmire made "outrageous demands and often played brinkmanship," which he was warned as far back as the mid-1990s needed to stop."

"However, Henson said he had to have numerous talks with Whitmire over the years about his unprofessional conduct, which included "appalling" communications with colleagues."

Henson also says that he wishes he had recast Kermit prior to the sale to Disney:
"I have to say, in hindsight, I feel pretty guilty that I burdened Disney by not having recast Kermit at that point because I knew that it was going to be a real problem,"

 

It's a sordid tale. Usually, this stuff just happens quietly behind the scenes, and the public never finds out about all the screaming and yelling. This is a pretty unusual deal, mainly because the person being fired complained so vocally and publicly about it.

 

Oh yeah, they're saying all that now, but you never heard any of this pre-Disney (or in fact at any point up until now). That's what i'm saying.

 

I'm assuming Steve was paid pretty well over the years and probably saved his money. I hope so, because I imagine it's going to be pretty hard for him to find work as a puppeteer now which is kind of a shame.

 

He could do cartoon voices, provided he has a good agent and some connections.

 

Maybe, but there are already enough (more than enough) existing voice actors.

 

The next time Kermit appears on a talk show or whatever you just know the host is going to ask him about this. heh... I'm sure Matt has already thought of a way to answer that.

 

Yeah, it's not like he can go on tour with Spinal Tap...or can he?

 

The stories about him being difficult to work with (regardless of how accurate they are) likely are going to make it harder for him to find work going forward.

 

true.

 

Yeah, probably... but I mean if Steve was as difficult to deal with as they say you'd think they would have gotten rid of him a long time ago. Matt's been with The Muppets for quite some time himself so it's not like he wasn't there to take over Steve's role as Kermit (and others?) whenever they wanted.

I admit I like Steve a lot as a performer and he seems like a nice guy so I'm kind of hoping he isn't as big of a jerk as Disney/Henson is making him out to be...