Ronnie James Dio in Black Sabbath

That's real good, T, real good.
I've got to go back and listen to Sabotage through to NSD, and really listen to them.
The first 4 albums I've got down stone cold, but I get shakier as the catalog moves along, just catching fewer songs with each release.

But to get back to it, I was all over H&H, and it was the right album at the right time for me back in the day.

 

It's as if some people here forgot Dio was making great albums with Rainbow before he got to Black Sabbath.
Whats up with all the stupid comparisons between Dio and Ozzy?
We might as well have the mindless argument about McCartney or Lennon.

 

I've never liked Dehumanizer either. Perhaps you remember my less than flattering review from the Sabbath ABA thread.

 

I'm not sure I've ever made it through Dehumidifier either. I will put that on my things I will probably not get around to list.

 

To be fair Dehumanizer was an album made by guys way past their prime.

 

It's more doomy than anything, though I do find melody in Dio's singing, even if it is more aggressive than something off Heaven and Hell. Listen to it again with fresh ears, and try to get through the whole thing, or at least the 2nd half of the album. The drums are slightly more forward than anything, maybe even a bit too loud, and Iommi has a great, grinding doom tone throughout the album. Geezer pounds away, like rain in a hurricane. I'd say give a listen to Sins of the Father, Too Late, and I. These are my favorite tracks on the album. I'd say listen to the op version. I haven't heard the remastered one, but I guess it may have fixed Vinny being too loud!

 

While on the one hand, the Dio lineup gained new fans for Sabbath, it also alienated some of the die hard Ozzy fans. Many thought it was a re-incarnation of Rainbow and not Sabbath. A local radio station, WLIR, previewed three or four cuts off H&H one night and I was mesmerized. While it was a change to hear someone other than Ozzy on vocals, the music was so strong that I embraced HAH fully as well as MR afterwards.

The MSG show during the MR tour I still consider to be the best concert I've ever attended. In part the show was originally scheduled for March but was cancelled and rescheduled for May. I think that two month postponement added to the anticipation and energy of the fans and band that night. It's a shame the tour wasn't filmed at all.

Dehumanizer and The Devil You Know are a mixed bag for me and don't have the same impact as the first two. I was glad to see them again as Heaven and Hell at Radio City and felt the live CD/DVD release finally captured and did justice to Iommi's live sound.

 

I think it's more fits The Devil You Know. Dehumanizer is a great HARD album, very heavy metal and less melodic than H&H and MR. I love all 3! I think the the only criticism you could level is that live they were "by the numbers," pretty much the same setlist each night, little improvisation. I never had trouble with Dio singing Ozzy numbers, then again I was a "second generation" Sabbath fan, getting into them after their 1970s run.

 

IMO, whatever creative differences existed between Iommi and Dio, and I'm sure they existed, it's hard to meaningfully talk about Dio's departure from Black Sabbath without heavy reference to what Ozzy was doing at the time. From 1980-1982, Ozzy and Sabbath were rivals, the split had been acrimonious and there was some bad blood. They were releasing albums almost at the same time - Heaven and Hell and Blizzard of Ozz came out within a few months of each other in 1980, Mob Rules came out literally 3 days before Diary of a Madman in November 1981, and the next year, Live Evil and Speak of the Devil were released at almost the same time as well.

The latter two releases especially were viewed by the rock press of the day as rival releases, and by early 1983 one thing was crystal clear: Whatever you thought of the artistic merits of these records, in terms of commercial success and domination of rock culture, Ozzy was beating the bejebus out of his old band. Blizzard and Madman were sensations, not just selling a lot of records, but combined with very well publicized myths/incidents such as Ozzy allegedly biting the head off a bat, catapulted Ozzy to a level of rock stardom that he arguably never had in Black Sabbath, his stardom transcended the heavy metal culture and to an extent actually penetrated mass pop culture. IMO, Mob Rules was an excellent album, but outside of a core of metal aficianados it basically fell on deaf ears, washed away in the media attention Ozzy was getting at the time.

IMO, this had a big impact on Dio, even though he wasn't part of the original Sabbath and therefore had no personal beef with Ozzy. He had to have been observing Ozzy's success as a solo act and thinking that he should take that path himself.

 

I think Mob Rules' standing suffers a bit due to the long shadow Heaven and Hell cast and the fact that Mob Rules was very much a continuation of that album. Even the pacing is similar.

I like them both more and more as time goes on and would prob give the edge to H&H if forced. But both, imo, are a very strong collection of songs and the sound of a band firing on all cylinders.

Dehumanizer, to me, is not nearly as strong, song-wise.

Sabbath Dio is my favorite Dio, fwiw - and I think it's simply because the Sabbath dynamic (Tony-Geezer-Ward) resonates with me more than Rainbow or Dio solo.

And at the end of the day, I would argue that one's acceptance of all things Sabbath ultimately rests on how deep a connection you have to Tony's playing.

As horrid as some of the production choices and sounds are on some of the post-Born Again releases, I think there are some worthy songs there and I can justify owning the whole catalog (I actually don't own the whole catalog but have been filling is missing spots with the DEs that have been filtering out and plan on picking up the rest of the Martin era etc as they get reissued hopefully) based on Tony's playing and songwriting.

But do I play Seventh Star or Eternal Idol even half as much as anything from the Ozzy/Dio era? Hell no.

 

The Mob Rules tour was filmed, with the intention of releasing a live concert film.

Obviously when Dio left, the idea was shelved.

 

Apparently, Ronnie James Dio is going out on tour again....as a hologram!

With no more income from album sales, a 69-year-old rock legend has to go back on tour

 

I agree with some of what you conclude here, but I don't think Dio leaving had a thing to do with whatever Ozzy was doing. That period is fairly well documented, and egos were the culprit within the band. Namely, Dio was on one side and Iommi/Butler on the other. Appice was probably along for the ride.

Ozzy's superstardom coincided with the rise of MTV. He was easier to digest than Sabbath with a new singer then another singer and another singer and yet another singer. However, the Dio period was very much competitive with Ozzy. In fact I believe I remember reading that in the UK Ozzy was a bit frustrated at the time as the Dio-fronted Sabbath was more successful than he was with Blizzard. But obviously in the US, Ozzy became a phenomenon. After Ozzy got going, he was playing arenas in the US and both he and the Dio-fronted Sabbath were playing the same venues by the time of MR/Diary. I actually think had the Dio-era kept going they would have had continued success.

The point of departure for popularity in the US was really Bark At The Moon/Born Again not the first two albums by both camps. Ozzy had a video in regular rotation on MTV, whereas Sabbath made two weird videos and had Ian Gillan in the band. Sabbath were still playing huge arenas, but when Gillan left and they went silent for several years only to return with yet another former member of the Deep Purple family, it was here that the separation really began. But then Ozzy was full on glam by 1986 or thereabouts. I'm not sure Tony or Geezer would ever have gone that route to achieve success.

TBH, a lot of what Ozzy became known for was stuff not really related to music. On the one had I credit him, but on the other I see much of that period as a big sellout. I know most of that mid to late 80's period didn't speak to me at all.

 

The best concert I ever attended was Black Sabbath's Mob Rules tour. The Outlaws opened. I believe at least a couple of songs from Live Evil came from the show I saw (Dallas, 1982).

 

How were the Outlaws received???

 

Luke warm. They weren't booed or anything. Some enthusiasm for "Green Grass and High Tides" and maybe "Ghost Riders in the Sky" but that's about it. They were tolerated.

 

Made some decent records after Sabbath, too.

D.D.

 

The Devil You Know seems more fitting for the "past their prime" stamp. I found it to be a good sounding album with a couple tracks of interest, but overall a boring album....and Dio's voice was a little rough around the edges. Still a good voice, but the material just wasn't there, IMO.

 

Isn't that basically the point of this thread?

The OP asked

 

Dio also made three good albums with Elf prior to Rainbow. I enjoy all three and I'm glad they received a very necessary CD re-release last year. Micky Lee Soule is one of the best boogie-woogie piano players in the business.

 

Bought this album when it was released. It is as HEAVY an album as it can possibly can get.

 

Seperated at birth with Chris Farley?

 

I saw The Heaven And Hell tour.....it didn't really work live in my opinion.

 

Sabbath is supposed to be a happy discussion, let's not bicker and argue over 'ooo sings better than 'ooo

 

I thought this was going to be a parody article. Who in the hell would go to see that? And they expect to make millions from it?