Game of Thrones - Season VII - July 16-2017

Bronn dont look to happy with his payment. I think he will switch side if he gets the chance. I would like to see him,and Tyrion back together.

 

I'm giving Sansa more credit than you. I think she sees through his ********. For that, see also the scene in the godswood, with Bran showing the dagger Littlefinger gave him. She immediately warns him that LF doesn't give anything without getting something in return. She's not an easy street for him.
However, she can't get rid of him for now. She needs his men (the riders of the Vale). Plus, it's likely that old adagium of "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer". With LF around he can't conspire with others to plot the downfall of House Stark (or at least, not as easily).

 

I can't believe you actually believe that Tyrion would EVER trust a word coming out of Cersei's mouth! While it's entirely possible he feels some kind of misplaced loyalty to his family name, he knows this ends with either him or his sister dead.

 

If I knew how to do spoiler tags I'd tell you who it was. The leaked script was longer than the actual episode

 

My guess about the end of this half of the final season: Jon and Danae are triumphant over the others and are sort of co-ruling the empire, he the North, she the rest, and before that is reconciled. . . the first massive attack of the Dead.

 

Fairly sure it was bronn saving Jaime though the reasons why I'm not sure. Either for the promise of a castle or because his bag of money fell out from his horse and probably been lost.

 

Does it rhyme with... Gronn... or Bickon?

 

His surname doesn't rhyme with barley...if that helps?!

 

hahaha
Bronn would/will ALWAYS go to the highest bidder!!!
["Follow the $$$" Deep Throat]
He even told US [Tyrion] that ages ago!!

 

Thank you, I knew I knew him from somewhere!

I think it was Bronn. At first I wasn't sure if it was Dickon (giggle) saving Jaime again, but I re-watched it and the guy who dives and takes Jaime into the water is in leather, like Bronn. Dickon was in metallic armor.

I think all those wagons Dany torched were full of grain, right? As she was talking about not being able to feed her army, it would have been useful NOT to burn them. I guess she might not have known what was in them, but she should have been torching soldiers, not wagons.

How Dany got the Dothracki in position to attack that caravan is curious. Yes, they pointed out she had enough ships to get the Dothracki to the mainland. But look at a map. That caravan was heading NW from Highgarden towards King's Landing. Did the Dothracki sail from Dragonstone all the way around the southern tip of Westeros to land on the western coast and then come up behind the caravan? And all before it could make it trip to King's Landing?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...rld_HBO.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130507121142

Maybe that river is big enough to sail the ships up? The show has always been a bit sketchy on the time frame and logistics when it comes to travel.

 

Seeing the fourth episode a second time just now, I think Jaime and Tyrion are reunited. I think they're allowed to go to Kings Landing to convince Cersei to surrender. That's my prediction for a few reasons that I won't explain. I think Tyrion resigns or is fired as hand of Daeny.

You may be right, and the Mountain is a good bodyguard but he isn't much good for fighting wars or protecting kingdoms.

I haven't seen anything that would make him turn against his sister, but the whole Tyrion secret and the brush with the dragon and Dothraki have probably convinced Jaime that the war is unwinnable.

If we know anything about Baelish, he's factored all that into his plans and adjusted accordingly. The fact remains, Sansa is letting him hang around, and that's a disaster waiting to happen that she is enabling. The knights of the vale were sworn to the Starks before Baelish took control of them by pushing Lysa to her death and manipulating her idiot son. If Sansa were a strong leader, she would throw Baelish in the dungeon for the murder of Lysa and take control of the knights of the Vale herself. But she's weak and stupid. She likes to think that she's being smart and strategic by letting Baelish hang around--the comment about the dagger you cite is evidence, and she's basically told Baelish as much to his face. But all it proves is she knows he's playing her and she's letting him.

I think he does feel a strong sense of responsibility to keep them alive. My new theory is that he wants both Jaime and Cersei to take the knee, and now that Olenna's secret is out, it may be enough to let Tyrion take an audience in Kings Landing if he's no longer hand of Daeny.

You may be right, but I don't see Jon as a factor in Daeny's campaign against Cersei. That campaign has to resolve before they can co-rule. I also think the kingdom will be decimated as winter comes full force if the dead breach the wall. Jon and Daeny will have to defeat them north of the wall to preempt that, and I'm not sure that can happen. Once the wall is breached, I suspect it may be up to Bran to somehow save humanity.

 

I like it that no one even tries to pretend anymore that Joffrey and Tommen were Robert's children.

 

" ...to let Tyrion take an audience in Kings Landing if he's no longer hand of Daeny."

I guess we have different views on the depths of Cersei's hatred of Tyrion. What's more, Tyrion's keenly aware of it. He knows (just like I do!) that his chances are slim to none of getting out of any 'audience' with Cersei alive. Regardless of whatever title he may or may not be holding, Cersei couldn't care less.

 

Dead issue.

That's certainly true their entire lives, as of the last time Tyrion was in the same area as Cersei as season 5 drew to a close. But losing her children and her army could change Cersei a bit. If in a vulnerable moment she finds out for 100% certainty that Tyrion had nothing to do with killing Joffrey along and also has an interest not seeing her killed, she could be persuaded to take an audience with him.

 

The GOT writers are big on the "strong, empowered female characters" trope so they wouldn't dare have Sansa be fooled by Littlefinger. If it looks like it's happening it will be misdirection before she turns the table on him. That's too bad because it reduces the narrative possibilities.

 

I agree about the strong, empowered female characters, but this has never described Sansa. She has never been strong or empowered. From the start, she wanted the Disney princess role, where she is a spineless jellyfish, the prince kisses her and they live happily ever after. Not even Disney promotes that narrative anymore.

Did you see the previous seasons? She basically convinced her father to bend the knee and admit to being a traitor in his last breath--for no reason. She allowed herself to be more valuable to her enemies than to anyone else.

As a child, she couldn't wait to get away from her family. She was indeed fooled by Baelish multiple times. He helped frame her for the murder of Joffrey, he pawned her off as Ramsey's bride. She was constantly abused. And yet she crawled back to Baelish time and again and let him get inside her head.

By your argument that the show is promotional of strong, empowered women, the writers will continue to make Sansa suffer.

 

I'm going out on a limb here (no inside info, purely a feeling/hunch), but I think the person on the throne at the bitter end will be...

...Arya.

That said, I wouldn't like to guess whose face she'll be wearing!

 

I for one dislike her and hope she loses. She's too overpowered with those dragons of her, too sure of herself and too smug. I root for the underdogs. Cersei's evil but I love to hate her.

 

At first she wasn't, but in recent seasons her arc has been that she now wants to call the shots and get revenge, like when she killed Ramsay. The writers are too chicken to throw that away by being true to the character as she was in the beginning. They'd do it no problem is she was a male character but such are the rules of current-day feminism that your female character can be evil but not weak, and certainly not towards a man.

 

Sansa's revenge fantasies are not a sign of strength or empowerment. They are a sign that she is still a little girl. The knights of the Vale were already sworn to House Stark, so she didn't need Baelish if she truly stood strong and empowered. And the only other way she has exerted her so-called strength is to publicly disagree with her brother -- by showing she continues to be ruled by childish revenge fantasies.

Well, they did much worse to a male character with Theon. Again, in the beginning Sansa couldn't wait to get away from Winterfell and her family, and be with Joffrey. She lied to try to please the royal family, resulting in her own dire wolf being killed. This was hugely symbolic. She played a disturbing role in having her father's head chopped off, and this was arguably her defining moment as a character. As much as she has supposedly learned from the ordeal that played out after that, she really hasn't grown. She replaced her desire to get out of Winterfell and go to Kings Landing with her desire to get out of Kings Landing and return to Winterfell. But she doesn't seem to be at home there, any more than she did when she was a child. Her core essence is unchanged. In some congenital way, she is still opposed to her family's interests. And I get the vibe from Bran that he has foreseen she will do something really horrible against the people who are supposed to be most important to her. It's just in her nature.

 

You're right about this. While all criticism of Sansa's character that GregM says is true from a neutral perspective, I just don't think the writers will let that stand for Sansa in the end. Any weakness she shows will quickly be reversed or will turn out to be misdirection.

 

It wasnt for no reason, it was because she was promised he would still live if he admitted it. Joffrey then went against that and cut his head off anyway.

 

Didn't we learn in the past that the Children Of The Forest created white walkers to use as a weapon against men (the "first men")? But these cave drawings supposedly show the CoTF fighing WITH men against the white walkers? I guess both things can be true.

 

So Cersei will just forgive and forget that Tyrion killed their father?

 

Yes, Sansa was all in for the Disney princess role, but only at the start of the series. After the first season she was over it. Her handsome prince turned out to be a ruthless psychopath and she ended up in a crawling pit full of enemies and no friends.

That was in Season 1. Thankfully, she has matured in later seasons. I also wouldn't say her convincing her father to admit to treason was for no reason, it was so his life would be spared. Joffrey thought otherwise though, to the surprise of everyone else.

Sansa's problem was all the time that she was alone, that she didn't have any allies, any support at all. In the Red Keep she was the only Stark (after Season 1), surrounded by Lannisters. She was basically overpowered, a pawn in the game. Over time she (slowly) gained skills and power. And the only one she could use (a bit) was Littlefinger.
As I said before, I don't think she lets Littlefinger get into her head too much nowadays, though she does keep him close. It is more that she hasn't found a way yet to effectively get rid of him and at the same time to be assured of the support of his men.

Sansa is quite strong and empowered nowadays. However, I do think her view is still quite caught in the patriarchical society that is Westeros. Unlike Arya or Daenerys she still views the man as the head of the family, instead of claiming her role based on her experience. See for that her remark that Bran would be the Lord Of Winterfell when he returned (or her reluctance/surprise that she's Lady Of Winterfell when Jon left for Dragonstone). She is more capable than she thinks she is.