Beatles Please Please Me Album Stereo Mix- MFSL Version

The Please Please Me cover is actually why I bought this record. Though I have to admit, at the time, I didn't realize it was German - I thought I was buying the British version. Hey, I was 14 or so!

 

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying you prefer the Die Beatles cover? That's the one I was not fond of. I like the PPM cover, and like TEB at least better than the DB cover.

 

Hype? If I recall correctly, you liked the 2012 vinyl reissues. So, why are you taking shots at those of us who don't particularly care for the MoFi pressings? It's a matter of preference. Some of them just hurt my ears. What I am going to say, that I like them? If you feel differently that's your choice and that's fine.

Regarding the 2012 stereo reissues, why reopen something that happened 5 years ago? And yes, I was one of those members who was very vocal about it, because the records in my box and subsequent replacement copies were terribly pressed. I don't feel badly about being critical about Rainbo at all.

 

I regret selling my MFSL Box, Blue Box #1818, and UHQR Sgt Pepper. All purchased brand new at their time of release.
Just to name a few. Oh the pain!

 

I did like the 2012s but, over the ensuing five years, keep going back to the MFSLs. I got a kick out of the recent thread by folks preferring the 1987 Pepper's CD to the 2017 version. Having excitedly shelled out $100-plus for the deluxe box, I made the comparison and agree. I tend to fall victim to the reissue fever here, only to discover that I was perfectly fine with what I had. The distinctly non-Rainbo MFSL box is one such release, one which I've had and enjoyed for 35 years. Don't like it? Knock yourself out.
P.S. Really like the Emerick book, which I reread often listening to...you know.

 

I don't care what Emerick has to say. His mixing choices sucked all through and up to Abbey Road. Sorry, but when I listen to the basic tracks, they sound phenomenal. After mixing? Much less so.

 

Excellent reason not to read the book by the man who worked with the Beatles on all of those classic tracks. I admire your resolve and solid logic.

 

Ok, you have a strong opinion on that, and that is fine, but can you please elaborate on WHY you feel this way, and specifically, what songs are you basing this on.

 

I've revisited the MoFi box and have listened to just about every album as well as the individual pressing of Sgt Pepper. Some aren't as bad as I once thought. I think the individual pressing of Pepper mastered by Jack Hunt is actually pretty good. I expected Abbey Road to be worse than I thought, and I was pleasantly surprised. I didn't care much for Rubber Soul and AHDN. There is a lot of detail in these pressings and the vinyl is pristine.

 

Another thing is: You need to educate yourself a little better on exactly HOW The Beatles recordings were constructed. There are so many bounce downs and premixes on the Beatles 1965-69 material that the final, completed tape just wasnt going to have the same fidelity as the initial 4 tracks on the Multitrack tape. The Beatles wanted certain things done, and bouncing down was the only way to achieve that at Abbey Road before the 8 track arrived. Not only is that not Emericks fault , but he came up with some pretty cool studio hacks to get what The Beatles wanted. I'd have to say the end results were pretty darn good.

 

Nah, I wasn't talking about Die Beatles at all. That cover isn't a favorite of mine either. But I'm sure the German PPM album I bought, with the classic (EMI) cover that I desired, has the same mastering/mix as the Die Beatles that's being discussed here.

This is what I have (picture found on-line) with an Apple label:

 

Cool, I bet some folks here can advise whether that has the same sound. I can't say myself.

 

If you can get past the excessive EQ (which would flatter certain speakers) you'll be happy with the MFSL. The more neutral your setup, the more noticeable the too-much-EQ becomes.

 

It does. The stamper numbers in the runout groove match.

 

And somehow it all snapped into focus for AHDN which is one of the finer MFSL Beatles presentations.

I just love it!

 

AHDN was a 4-track recording. Bass and drums were recorded on track 1, guitars on track 2, vocals and overdubs on tracks 3 and 4.

 

Please see post #143.

Because there is absolutely no evidence of this phantom 'uncompressed' tape, and the way the album was mixed means that it couldn't really be possible anyway.

Just compare mono and stereo versions of those 9 songs - they are one mix going simultaneously to two different formats, and they match (other than the format).

 

Slane:

>>>>>I can see by your post that you aren't grasping what the story is. This phantom 'uncompressed' tape DOES exist...it is the MIX done from the raw twin tracks. The MIX tape does not have the extra Compression, Limiting and EQ. EMI took this MIX tape and ran off a flat 15 ips transfer, and shipped it to Germany. EMI Germany cut the "Die Beatles" LP from this tape.

In order to make the UK Vinyl cutting master, EMI made a copy of the MIX tape and added EQ, compression and limiting. From this Vinyl Cutting Master Tape, they cut the lacquers for the UK LP, and made the metal parts.

In regard to your comments of "Just compare mono and stereo versions of those 9 songs - they are one mix going simultaneously to two different formats", not sure how you think this because the mixing sessions for the mono and stereo versions were done at separate times.

On Monday Feb 25 1963, At the 10:00 Am to 1:00 PM session, George Martin did the MONO mixes of
of Anna (Go To Him), Boys, Chains, Misery, Do You Want To Know A Secret, There's A Place, I Saw Her Standing There, Twist And Shout and A Taste Of Honey.

Martin then continued on with stereo mixes of Anna (Go To Him), Boys, Chains, Baby It's You, Do You Want To Know A Secret, There's A Place, I Saw Her Standing There, Twist And Shout and A Taste Of Honey.

In the 2:30 to 5:45 session, the mono mixes of Ask Me Why, Misery, and Baby It's You were made.
Stereo mixes of Ask Me Why, Please Please Me, Love Me Do and PS I Love You were also created, the latter two from the 11 September 1962 mono mixes. The final song to be worked on was Misery, which was mixed in stereo, in its final, released mix.

So your argument that the songs, either mono or stereo were "one mix going to two formats" is not correct.

 

The simultaneous mixing IS correct. Though it has been widely misinterpreted, John Barrett's notes clearly state that this is the case (once you understand the method). It's exactly the same process that was also used during recording at that time (everything going to twin-track and delta mono). Ever wondered why Lewisohn lists the mono and stereo mixes as being separately done, yet they are bizarrely done in the same order? That's because he also misinterpreted the information. The mixes were done simultaneously (with a couple of exceptions), hence the 'same' order on the session sheets.

As an example, let's take Chains. The chosen take was Take 1 (of four).

The takes were recorded to twin-track tape (with the instruments/vocals separation) and simultaneously to mono tape (with the instruments/voices mixed together).

Ultimately though, neither the twin-track tape nor the delta mono tape were used as the stereo and mono masters.

Instead, the twin-track Take 1 was copied with additional EQ and compression, becoming 'Take 2' (or was it 'Take 5'? I can't remember, but it gained a take number). As with the recording method, this 'copy' was again printed to 2-track tape and mono tape simultaneously. These two tapes became the stereo and mono masters for the song.

Everything on these simultaneous mixes matches - EQ, compression, even the fade-out is identical. This means that these changes were all made during the mix/copy.

For a 'flatter' stereo version, you would have to go back to the session twin-track. That's not a problem in itself, but the fade-out would need to be redone. Yet the fade on the German master is still identical to the regular mono/stereo versions. If the fade was redone, you would expect a minor variation on the execution of the fade-out.

As a comparison to that, the mono and stereo mixes of Misery and Baby It's You (and the title track, though that's a special case) were done independently. And as you would expect (even with these relatively straightforward recordings), there are slight variations (the intro of Misery, the fade-out of Baby It's You) in the two mixes.

In a nutshell, these were still the days of twin-track/delta mono at EMI (this ended later in 1963).

 

Here are Barrett's notes. There are still some discrepancies and missing notations, but you get the idea. M=master. 2T=twin-track, and A (actually a triangle)=delta mono. Note that all master takes have gained a take number in the copying/mixing process (so Take 1 of Chains goes to 'Take 2', for example). A few mixes are 2T or mono only.

[E48978] 2T & A 25 Feb 1963
Anna (TK4) M
Boys (TK2) M
Chains (TK2) M
Misery (TK17)
Baby It's You (2T ONLY) (TK6-TK8) M
Do You Want To Know A Secret
Job No. 3586/3PMS

[E48979] 2T & A 25 Feb 1963
There's A Place (TK14) M
I Saw Her Standing There (TK13) M
Twist And Shout (TK3) M
A Taste Of Honey (TK8) M
Ask Me Why (TK7) M 25 Feb 1963
Please Please Me (TK16-TK18) (ED) M
Love Me Do (Mock ST?) (TK19) (ST ONLY) M
P.S. I Love You (TK11) (ST ONLY) M
Misery (SI PIANO ON MONO RECORDING ONLY) (TK18-TK20)
Baby It's You (MONO ONLY) (TK9) M
Job No. 3586/3PMS

 

I dont agree:

"Ever wondered why Lewisohn lists the mono and stereo mixes as being separately done, yet they are bizarrely done in the same order? That's because he also misinterpreted the information."

>>>OR......thats simply the order the songs appeared on the Session Tape as they played it back, hence the same order.

"The takes were recorded to twin-track tape (with the instruments/vocals separation) and simultaneously to mono tape (with the instruments/voices mixed together)."

>>>>And just how did they do this through the REDD 37 Console? The console would have to be switched to either Two track output (Stereo) or One track output (Mono) to send the signal to the selected BTR Tape recorder.........couldnt do both.

I also dont agree AT ALL that the mixes sound exactly the same. I hear more compression on the mono mixes, and I absolutely hear a bump up in the upper midrange...Georges guitar and Ringos snare sound more forward in the mix to me on the stereo mixes, and I attribute that to a different EQ (or perhaps this was due to the compression, but the point is.....DIFFERENT than the mono.)

I am sorry, but I do not agree on your theory that the stereo and mono mixes were done simultaneously. Besides all the facts above, if they HAD, they wouldnt have needed TWO full sessions of 6 1/2 hours to mix 30 minutes of 2 track only program material!

 

I am blown away by how the basic tracks sound and how much worse they sound later. If I am recalling correctly, I think Mr. Hoffman made the same comment on how much quality was lost after mixing. Sorry, but I just cannot get used to vocals on one side on HCTS.

 

Incorrect, the REDD desk definitely had the delta mono facility (and it was used during recording, check the PPM recording sheets).

 

I know exactly how they were constructed. I'm just curious as to why Mr. Hoffman made a similar comment as to the songs post mixing losing so much fidelity. I also found some mixing choices to be odd.

 

In the post above, I meant to say:
"Georges guitar and Ringos snare sound more forward in the mix to me on the MONO mixes"