Beatles Please Please Me Album Stereo Mix- MFSL Version

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by stereoguy, Jul 5, 2017.

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  1. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC

    Great!! And youre telling me you DONT hear how open sounding with increased dynamic range it has vs. the UK LP?
     
  2. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    But if the simultaneous mono mixes prove that the compression must be printed onto the (only) stereo mix, where would the 'uncompressed' tape come from?

    I hear the vocal channel more upfront, the instruments (and vocal echo on the left) reduced, and different EQ choices. Yes, it has a different feel.
     
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  3. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC


    >>>>>Dont you see, it WASNT a "Unique" dub? It was a dub of the finished Master tape. The extra compression and limiting and EQ was done ONLY for the Vinyl cutting master. They didnt just add the extra compression to the finished master because over time they would upgrade the Lathes to new models, and then they'd make a NEW vinyl cutting master that matched the requirements of the new lathe. To be able to do that, they needed a source tape to start with....the Finished Master tape.
     
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  4. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC

    Ok....and you DONT hear the "openness" and increased dynamic range due to less compression?
     
  5. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    Well, it appears that way - the instruments are less prominent (on the left channel anyway - the vocal channel has a good amount of instruments bleed).
     
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  6. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    So why didn't send that version until 1966? And why didn't they send it to other countries?

    It's all speculation based on how that LP sounds, that can be attributed to the EQ and re-channelling
     
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  7. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Sending flat copies of a "master" - and not cutting masters - to other markets was SOP for EMI then, no?

    Why only Germany? Perhaps because that's the only other market that had any interest in a little pop combo named The Beatles in the Spring of 1963?

    It makes complete sense.
     
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  8. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Who said it wasn't sent until 1966? Could it be that when it was cut in 1963 in Germany, they did a crappy job with the tape they got and then when it was redone, they did a much better job? It's not as though the mastering of German Beatles LP's was consistent in the 60's; they ranged from great to craptacular.
     
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  9. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I loved the MFSL through my McIntosh 4100 receiver's phono section. Not so much on my new stuff.
     
  10. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Please Please Me wasn't released in Germany in spring 63. The first LP in Germany was With the Beatles in november. PPM came out in 1964, and it's not the Die Beatles cut.
     
  11. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Correct. Brain cramp by me. Yes, I know it wasn't the -2 cut. That doesn't mean it wasn't cut from the same tape as the -2 cut though...
     
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  12. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    Master vs. cutting master? I thought these were the same thing.

    Isn't there evidence of 1st gen. mixes being spliced directly into the album master used for cutting UK LPs?
     
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  13. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Yes, I assume they were both cut from the same tape. Precisely because of that I don't understand how the first time it came out with the same compression and EQ as in the rest of editions, and then the second time it would come out as an uncompressed master. I find it more likely that, as slane explains, the difference in sound is due to re-channelling and EQ.
     
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  14. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    My best guess is that Germany made their own master/cut that 'normalised' the channels, so they were more 'equally' balanced compared to the more left-heavy original.
     
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  15. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    They're not the same thing. A master tape is actually...an unmastered tape. A cutting master is a tape made from the master tape with all of the mastering moves, so that the album can be re-cut down the road without having to do any "mastering".

    The thing that makes this circumstance odd is that 1) the entire PPM LP - save Love Me Do and PS I Love You which are mono - is from twin tracks so any "mixing" was fairly rudimentary and 2) a cutting master was made and used (other Beatles UK LPs of the era were cut and re-cut from the master tapes each time, not from a cutting master).
     
  16. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Have you actually heard the 1st German stereo LP?
     
  17. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    Except that isn't the actual outcome.
     
  18. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    This is the only master tape I've seen documented. I expect foreign markets would receive dubs of this:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    I'm farly sure @Dinstun is correct - this LP (at least) was cut directly from the mixes.
     
  20. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I wouldn't necessarily. Don't other Beatle master tape boxes indicate if a copy was made and for whom? Plus it wouldn't take weeks or, even in some cases, months to make a copy. This looks like a UK "equalised compressed" cutting master tape to my modestly educated eyes.

    Correction: Specific notations for copies for other countries didn't start until later.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  21. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I'm fairly sure he isn't (actually I'm not sure that's what he's saying at all - he's just asking the question) but isn't that the crux of the argument here? You think it was cut directly from the mixes. Others think otherwise.
     
  22. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    I suspect the phrase "EQUALISED COMPRESSED TAPE" on the box may be the source of much of the confusion. I take that to mean that this is the final processed album master, ready for production. It doesn't necessarily mean (IMO) that an unprocessed master ever existed.
     
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  23. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    No, but the only one that seems to sound different is the Die Beatles cut. There are no threads about the first edition's sound.

    If EMI sent uncompressed and un-equalised masters, it seems very strange that only this edition came out like that. Wouldn't cutting engineers in other countries cut the album uncompressed too?

    But the point is, there seems to be no evidence or document that they sent an uncompressed tape.
     
  24. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    It doesn't necessarily mean that an unprocessed mastered didn't ever exist either.
     
  25. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle Tennessee
    But is there evidence of it? It seems a strange omission from the notes John Barrett made of the tape catalog that no such unprocessed master tapes are listed. The above master tape 11440A/B certainly is.
     
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