EVERY Billboard #1 hit discussion thread 1958-Present

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by alphanguy, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. AppleBonker

    AppleBonker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Mrs. Robinson

    Busy week, but I had to make some comments on this fabulous song before too much more time passed...

    IMO this song is the point when Simon and Garfunkel really arrived as one of the top recording acts of the era. Yes, they had Sound of Silence before this as well as a bunch of other brilliant songs, some of which were moderate hits. But Robinson was a huge hit, it was a pivotal song in a massively huge movie, and the song itself just seems to have an iconic quality about it that makes it stand out in Simon's excellent catalog.

    [​IMG]

    The lyrics are funny and very memorable. "Any way you look at it, you lose" - ain't that the truth. "Coo coo ca choo, Mrs. Robinson" -- tweaking the Beatles. "We'd like to know a little bit about you for our files" -- which files are those again? Hmmmm... "Joltin' Joe has left and gone away". Just one brilliant little moment after another.

    And hilariously, it seems to have jack squat to do with the movie's Mrs. Robinson. Can you imagine Anne Bancroft's character lamenting about Joe DiMaggio? Ben is not mentioned in the song, nor is there anything in the song about her character arc whatsoever. It works in the movie because Simon says it works, thank you very much.

    [​IMG]

    In fact, the song started life completely independent of the film, and was massaged to fit into it (for instance, the character was previously named Mrs. Roosevelt - possibly a reference to Eleanor, which would explain the candidates debate business).

    Paul Simon later commented that he used Joe DiMaggio in the song because it scanned better. However, DiMaggio was before his time, and he really grew up as a Mickey Mantle fan. He couldn't make Mantle's name work in the meter, though.

    Later, DiMaggio admitted he was confused by the reference and thought it was somehow a swipe at him by the hippies.

    Which brings me to the crux of the issue -- how are we to take the lyrics in the song? What is Simon trying to say? Let's assume that we can't equate the song Mrs. Robinson with the movie Mrs. Robinson. What's happening in his lyrics?

    I've never been entirely sure, but my read on it is that Simon/the narrator is taking a sarcastic look at the older generation and their way of life. The chorus is saluting the character, though probably not sincerely: here's to you, Mrs. Robinson. When he mentions that Jesus loves her and there is a place in Heaven for her, it sounds like the kind of backhanded compliment he believes a person of the previous generation would value while he himself has tongue in cheek.

    The first verse deals with Mrs. Robinson arriving at -- a hospital? Stroll around the grounds, sympathetic eyes everywhere... Has she ended up in an institution? Is she trying to recover from drug or alcohol addiction (a 1960s version of the Betty Ford Clinic?)? That would match up with the second verse, which talks about her hiding something in her pantry and keeping it secret from the kids -- perhaps she hides her 'stash' of drugs or her booze there. Or, the second verse could be about the 'affair' from the movie (I doubt it, but 'pantry' could be metaphorical, like a place in her heart she hides her secrets or something). Regardless, all is not perfect in the Robinson household.

    In the third verse, we talk about going to the candidates debate. The narrator points out that this is a no win situation like her secret addiction was. (What koo koo ka choo means is anyone's guess; Mrs Robinson does not sound like the kind of person to listen to I Am the Walrus).

    Then comes the bit about Joe DiMaggio. Was he correct in thinking this was an insult? I'm still not sure to be honest.

    [​IMG]

    In real life, Simon would seem to have been sympathetic to the Yankee Clipper, so my guess is that it is not meant to be critical. He says: your (older) generation is screwed up, and when you look to your old heroes who showed you how you should be acting, they are not there to guide you. At least, tellingly, it is Mrs. Robinson who says he is gone; so maybe he's still there, but people of her age have become so corrupted that they choose not to see him. If this interpretation is true, then Joltin' Joe is the good guy in the song, and he should feel honored and not insulted by the reference.

    Then again, Simon could be saying that even DiMaggio the Big Hero was also shown to be just human, perhaps by what happened with Marilyn Monroe or whatever, in which case he has 'left and gone away' in the metaphorical sense: his heroic luster is gone, leaving just the man (note that Joltin' Joe, the heroic nickname, has left and gone away, not Joe DiMaggio the human being).

    I'm leaning towards the former meaning. It gives the song a bit more heft if you assume that it isn't a blanket condemnation of the older generation. I give Simon more credit than to take that easy route.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
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  2. AppleBonker

    AppleBonker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    The Graduate's use of Mrs. Robinson and other Simon and Garfunkel songs is generally credited as the first time Hollywood used modern pop songs for the soundtrack. Of course, this has become a common practice since then.

    It's a nice theory, but it's not really true. As far back as 1956, The Blackboard Jungle famously had 'Rock Around the Clock' in its credit sequence. Then you had all the Elvis movies and various other Rock and Twist and Beach movies. Starting with A Hard Day's Night in 1964, the songs became more than just numbers the singers were actually performing in the movie, like for instance in the famous Can't Buy Me Love field sequence. And earlier in 1967, you had You're a Big Boy Now, with Coppola using the Lovin' Spoonful's songs to set the mood for various scenes, with the Spoonful nowhere in sight.

    I do believe, though, that The Graduate, being an Oscar nominated film and a massive hit, really brought the practice into the mainstream. When Easy Rider followed suit in 1969 and also became huge, the idea started to become much more common.

    Here is the credit sequence for the film, using The Sound of Silence. The way this is structured is quite different from the way opening credits were previously done.

     
  3. Tim S

    Tim S Senior Member

    Location:
    East Tennessee
    I like "Mrs Robinson," I don't love it. It has some fine acoustic guitar which helps a lot for me. I did not know The Graduate was an Oscar nominee, I'm a little surprised. It's a good movie, but not Oscar material - I think it was probably very topical at the time, and got the nod based on that. It certainly hasn't aged well. "Scarborough Fair" made it to #11 and I prefer it by a wide, wide margin.
     
  4. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    It turned out to be a master stroke, in terms of DiMag's sterling reputation, for Simon to refer to him. That's because, as I may have noted, several posts back, Simon's true baseball idol Mickey Mantle's own wholesome reputation and "aw shucks" persona took a major hit the year after "Mrs. Robinson" topped the charts, following revelations by onetime teammate Jim Bouton in his book Ball Four. (Including stories of "The Mick" playing while extremely hung over.)
     
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  5. Mylene

    Mylene Senior Member

    Larry Norman must have toured Australia about 10 times in the 1970s. He was always on TV talking about Jesus. He must have sold albums at his gigs because I doubt any of them were released here but they're common in secondhand shops.
     
  6. snepts

    snepts Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eugene, OR
    I'm going with AppleBonker just to say I think Mrs R is an unusually savvy, smart and tight song to hit the Top Spot.
    There are tons of other songs I like more, but Mrs R was a twisty, sophisticated number I'm surprised others don't realize.
    Light, literate, a deliberate rhythm, nice guitar filligrees -- it's almost a perfect song.
     
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  7. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    The cheerful, bubbly nature of the tune makes for a delicious contrast with its sneering, sarcastic lyric.
     
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  8. alphanguy

    alphanguy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Missouri
    Next is "People Got to Be Free" by The Rascals, #1 from August 17- September 20, 1968

     
  9. alphanguy

    alphanguy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Missouri
    Here it is performed live on The Barbara McNair Show, October 3, 1970:

     
  10. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Timely...
     
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  11. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    Another massively popular #1 song - 5 weeks - that I like but not as much as some other tunes by the group now known as The Rascals. I'll take A Beautiful Morning or even A Ray Of Hope but it doesn't really matter since this is their biggie and you can't argue with the sentiments. The band saw a steep drop off in popularity after this one - their next four singles failed to make the top twenty - and by the start of the 70s, fractured and eventually went their separate ways. Still, their legacy is assured as one of the great Rock/R&B/Psych bands of the 60s and just to put a capper on their career here's a last taste of their psychedelic side from their last somewhat popular selling album See, the blissful Nubia:


     
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  12. AppleBonker

    AppleBonker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I think I've talked about this before, but the 1967 Best Picture Oscars were a very fascinating contest. It was really the first hurrah of the New Hollywood that would take over the industry in the 70s, and the last gasp of the old studio system.

    On the 'new' side were The Graduate and Bonnie and Clyde, both massive hits at the end of the year (B + C had been released earlier in the year and had bombed, then was re-released and became a smash). On the 'old'/traditional side were Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, an old fashioned message picture, and Doctor Doolittle, a bloated musical. Then there was In the Heat of the Night, the fifth nominee, which was more of a new style movie especially in terms of subject matter, but with some more traditional elements as well. Heat would win the award.

    Even the Oscar ceremony was charged; it took place in April, 1968, and was postponed several days due to the assassination of Martin Luther King. Bob Hope, the MC, was supposedly not happy the rescheduling had happened, and some of the younger folks in the audience bristled at some of his jokes. The Best Actor winner, Rod Steiger, name dropped the Maharishi (!). Steiger was considered somewhat of a hero to the method actor types, and when he won and said 'We Shall Overcome' from the stage (one of the few references to MLK all night), it was an electric moment for them.



    I highly recommend the book Pictures at a Revolution, which is an in depth examination of this sea change in Hollywood through a close look at the five Best Picture nominees from 1967 and their histories and creation, as well as a fascinating behind-the-scenes peek at the Oscar ceremony that year.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  13. AppleBonker

    AppleBonker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Thanks! In all honesty I don't know much about Harris' music, and I know a cornball when I see one, but MacArthur Park and a few other tracks of his manage to nicely skirt the edge between cheesy and awesome (at least for me they do!).
     
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  14. John B Good

    John B Good Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    NS, Canada
    I'm getting close to needing a Rascals-Young Rascals cd...
     
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  15. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Just make sure there's some mono in there. In some cases there were major differences between the mono and stereo.
     
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  16. John B Good

    John B Good Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    NS, Canada
    I'm thinking of that Real Gone edition, though it is expensive.
     
  17. tmoore

    tmoore Forum Resident

    Location:
    Olney, MD
    I don't post often and so I'll comment on several songs. For my comments to make sense, understand that I was 1 in 1968, and I didn't actually hear these songs until later (probably '70s, if I heard them at all in the '60s it was at the very very end of the decade).

    Mrs. Robinson - my family bought this 45 and for a long time it was my favorite S & G song. Nowadays it is #2 for me (topped by "America" which I did not hear until the 1980s -- we did not have the Bookends album and I did not hear that album or "America" until the 1980s). The B-side "Old Friends/Bookends" was also a favorite. I should also point out that for a very long time I thought the vocals (what I later learned were Simon's) were female (we did not have any pictures of S&G, and those names didn't help me figure that out).

    This Guy's In Love With You -- my mother, the Herb Alpert fan (and the rest of my family) watched the 1968 TV special with Herb Alpert, which I believe someone in our house recorded on our reel-to-reel tape recorder, so for a long time in the '70s I was hearing this song as recorded on the reel-to-reel that we had. Then sometime (guessing 1974?), the reel-to-reel tape recorder broke (and was not repaired or replaced), and it was another 10 years before I heard the song again. But when I heard it again, I instantly remembered it.

    Grazing in the Grass (Hugh Masekela version) and Classical Gas by Mason Williams-- I remember hearing both of these a lot on our local radio station in the early '70s and both of them I have never tired of hearing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  18. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I had the mono single mix on CD for at least a couple of decades before it showed up again on the Real Gone Singles collection. The main feature of the mono mix is that the horn blasts and drums are clear and up front.

    If you read the booklet in that CD, you'll find an explaination of why he wrote that song. It's perhaps the most important song Felix Cavaliere wrote for the band, and was directly influenced by the civil rights struggle. If I remember correctly - and don't get upset if i'm wrong - the label had an objection to releasing it as a single. The band's instincts were, again, correct, as the song shot to #1.

    As Manapua says, it was the first record they released under their original name "The Rascals". They had a cease and desist order from some other band named The Rascals back in 1965, but they had grown to be a major band, never liked being billed as "The Young Rascals", and in 1968 just said basically "the hell with it", and used the original name. That is why they are called "The Rascals" today, but adds the "young" part on the earlier records.
     
  19. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    There's a little problem with this timeline - "People Got To Be Free" was actually the second single to be credited to "The Rascals." The first: "A Beautiful Morning."
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    I.I.N.M., that was one of several cases of Atlantic objecting to potential single releases, that wound up either topping the charts or otherwise becoming big hits.
     
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  21. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Like Motown, Atlantic executives were stuck on happy, danceable R&B. They were afraid of political songs. But, in the late 60s, songs about politics and the social state of the union was exactly what people wanted to hear. That, and bubblegum.
     
  22. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    I was thinking of Jerry Wexler's reported objection to The Drifters' first record after an entirely new group with that name (fronted by a certain Ben E. King) was put together - "There Goes My Baby." Which was only held up for a few months instead of close to a year, contrary to legend.
     
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  23. Dougd

    Dougd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fla.
    Grazing is a far different song than Mrs. Robinson.
    Apples & oranges.

    Jumpin' Jack Flash does sound like a No. 1. I'd of thought it went to No. 3.
    But No. 3 is very high.
    It supports my view that almost any song that cracks the Top 5 (at least Top 3) is as good as No. 1, particularly if the No. 1 HOGS the top spot FOR WEEKS, like many Bee Gees songs in the late 70s, Honey, My Love, etc.

    These are just a few other No.2- No. 3 songs that also sounded like No. 1s:
    -Saturday in the Park (#3)
    -California Girls (#3)
    -Louie, Louie (#2)
    -Wooly Bully (#2)
    -Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me (#2)
    -Paint It, Black (#3)
    -Wouldn't It Be Nice (#8)
    -Little Darlin' (kept out of No. 1 by Elvis)
    -Here Comes the Sun (never released as a single)
    -Fun Fun Fun (#3)
    -You Don't Own Me - Lesley Gore (#2) (kept from No. 1 by The Beatles)
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
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  24. Dougd

    Dougd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fla.
    [On Mrs. Robinson]
    Much like Gilbert O'Sullivan's Alone Again (Naturally), which would hit No. 1 in the early 70s.
    Its upbeat nature masked its depressing suicide-themed lyrics.
     
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  25. Dougd

    Dougd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fla.
    The 2 songs aren't really related.
    Classical Gas is more rockin', Love Is Blue is a delightfully beautiful song, but more of a ballad.
    The only thing the two great songs share is being instrumentals.
     
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