All that is/means is the reissue was cut lower than the original. I imported that audiofile into Logic Pro X and to be very very honest I only heard very minute nuances such as drum hits and one or two bits on Elton's vocal phrasing ....but they were so miniscule it's hardly even worth mentioning. I got this when it was first posted by Nobby and I was very appreciative but to me everything has been kept in tact. No, no dynamics have been lost whatsoever...in fact?? enhanced. I have lived with CF since I was 8 when it first came out. I am not an expert but I feel I have good opinion about this. My critique lies with you in the fact that you claim the whole catalogue based on this "soundbite" and then you diss the whole catalog without even hearing it. That's the funny part. Not your opinion on this particular soundbite. Between, me, Mazzy, Ricco and others I have failed to mention, we give our own critique and I have. There are certain issues in Honky Chateau that I have that most others don't have but they respect my opinion as much as yours. I hate to educate you but you're incorrect.......YES when you finally do have a clean album that does define the overall sound, you can still love or hate it but when their is minimal to no surface noise. Yeah, it kinda helps the situation. Especially intros or fade outs like Love Song, (sorry Mazzy) Tonight, Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word, Blues For Baby and Me, Ticking, Pinky, Stinker etc etc So, no mpayan you're not spoiling the positive party. The fact is you're coming across like someone who apparently knows what they're talking about when in fact??..you don't!! Hell, I want to slapp Mazzy upside the head for his critique for his Blue Moves negativity but hell I see the humour in that and in some ways I agree with him....not that I would ever slap him but the temptation is there....LOL. If you (mypayan) had said I listened to Tumbleweed and Captain Fantastic and compared to my original UK's my U.Ks are better?? I sooo wouldn't have even given a blink. Or maybe I would if I had both those versions. But to make bold statements when you haven't even heard them ALL?? (sorry soundbites do not count). You lose total credibility. That's exactly like me saying I know this girl is fantastic in bed yet I have only kissed her. Yet the people/folks I have claimed this to have actually slept with her.
Actually a marginal improvement over the original EU pressing (which likely was pressed at the same plant).
What exactly are you educating me on? How to write in paragraphs? Because I really have difficulty in even reading what you write because you are so all over the place. But Ill do my best to answer you. The differences in volume are inconsequential as to why I dont like the mastering. Volume matching is not going to change the eq issues I hear. Nor will it change the smeared soundstage as compared to the UK. Nor will the detail all the sudden reappear. What is difficult for you to understand about this? You may not hear these issues. I AND OTHERS DO. Certainly it would be nice to have no crackles and crap in quiet passages. But again, the blackest backgrounds arent going to all the sudden change the mastering. And the mastering choices is what those who are saying these arent up to snuff are stating. And yes I did give my opinion on that particular clip and why I made the decision not to buy these based upon that clip. Go back and read. Am I forcing anyone else to listen to the clip or follow my philosophy? No. But I will state what I believe and think on the topic. So, you arent educating me on anything. The clip is there for people to listen to. Ive explained exactly why I think the mastering lacks in that clip. So have others. And others that have purchased the albums in spite of this have found them lacking in many aspects. This isnt difficult as to why I made the judgement concerning the rest of the reissues: Reissue comes out>>>people buy it>>>a clip is posted>>>me not like mastering in clip>>>me understand other Elton John reissues mastered by same engineer with same philosophy>>>me not buy Elton John reissues. Capiche? With the exception of Tumbleweed due to someone that has proven he has the same understanding of what constitutes the type of mastering I like also and stated that Tumbleweed was the exception. Im curious as to what it sounds like. If anyone wants to throw up a clip of Tumbleweed, maybe I can save money on that one also. Or maybe it IS the exception and beats the original. Ill find out when it comes in. Im willing to take the risk that one. Is this the absolute best way to decide not to buy the reissues? No, its perhaps not the idea way to be able to A/B an album. Yes I wish there were other clips. Or I could magically be transported to someones home listening A/B comparison. But IMO I believe it to be a logical alternative that wont have me buying reissues that I am hedging my bet dont improve upon the original UKs. In other words Im not throwing my money at the hopes that the rest of the reissues wont have similar mastering of Captain Fantastic. Im not made of money and I have to be choosey. Ill hedge my bet that many others here dont care to throw good money after bad either. And I believe and stand by my assesment that going by comparison clips are a pretty decent way of determining whether one likes the mastering. Your opinion is as valid as mine. I dont deny you that. So please stop lambasting me about my opinion. Ive been listening to Elton a very long time also. The first time I heard Steve's mastering of Honky Cat and those horns, I went slack jawed. So I know the music fairly well also.
Let's get this thread back on track and stop the personal sniping. Please. I'd love to hear more opinions on the reissue of Don't Shoot Me. I have Elton's entire 70's run on original US pressings, and that album is probably the worst sounding. Plus my copy has a ton of crackle here and there.
The problem has more to do with the really bad quality vinyl MCA always used. It was nearly impossible to get a quiet copy. The reissue that I have is flawless.
Wow. I think the reissues are perfect. I have multiple copies of all of his catalogue and I am a very discerning, fussy listener. I have bought almost all of them so far and this is as good as it's going to get. And even if an older issue is slightly better mastered, and I don't think they are, the new one's win for just being much better pressed. I have purchased many DJM copies overseas and all of them were too noisy for me to enjoy, even if I could tell better mastering was buried underneath all the noise. Since I have an MFSL copy of Brick Road I won't be picking that one up, but I am completely satisfied with these reissues. Sorry you aren't enjoying them, but I guess it doesn't matter if you enjoy what you have. Oh....and just in case anyone wonders how I came to this conclusion, I did absolutely positively use my ears!
I have purchased endless copies of CF on vinyl, many DJM and MCA and all of them were okay to terrible, many times because of the noisy vinyl, not the mastering. I guess this guy has that awesome rare pressing that is perfect, but the irony of his very assertive and aggressive post is the reissue is by far the best I have ever heard this album, and may I dare say, the best sounding and most improved so far of all the reissues. I doubt the op, as you said, has even heard the reissue. Or, I have been unusually unlucky with ever copy, numbering at least ten, of that album prior to getting the reissue. Obviously, all of this is very subjective. I'm just thankful that finally I'm happy with this title.
I suggest just buy it especially if your original is not in great shape. Other than hypothetical AAA cuts these are as close to originals as you may wish for. Even if there are differences in sound these are a most enjoyable listen and don't sound digital. The worst deviations are lack of textured covers and loose booklets with some titles. They may sound marginally inferior or different than a first UK but pressing quality is better and I haven't done direct comparisons apart from Captain Fantastic (which is not quite as good). Otherwise they sound so good I was not tempted to do any more anal comparisons. Quite familiar with the UK originals and I'm sure these are better than anything other than the translucent early pressings but minus some intrusive surface noise.
Not sure how Im anymore aggressive than the guy you are agreeing with. Its just that you dont agree with me, so you see mine as aggressive. You dont have to doubt Ive heard the CF reissue completely or that I have it at all. I plainly stated that I dont and dont plan on purchasing it after hearing the sample. However, youre probably correct. These are about as good as they will get for a reissue. Doubt they will be done again anytime soon. But if the rest are done in the same style of mastering as CF, then thats disappointing to some folks, including myself. Would have been very cool to have had a reissue that sound better the DJM UKs. As far as me having some awesomely rare pressing? No, I have the translucent DJMs. And they sound great. Although noisier than Id like. Thus the disappointment that the reissue isnt what Id hoped for in sq. Ironically they apparently are pressed well and pretty quiet. C'est La Vie... Glad you like them though! Enjoy!
The other 'DJM' titles sound better than CF which frankly I never thought was the best sounding EJ title. That is the only reissue where I suspected something lacking though still very good. Several I would say are as good as the UK originals. May come down to system or taste as to whether better or worse. Can't make judgements based on a needle drop of one title.
Again, its the mastering differences that I am hearing from the sample. Not lack of sonics of a particular title. It is true though that it isnt an ideal to base judgement for the entire series on one sample. But it does me a hunch that the same mastering style was used. Unless they had different mastering engineers for each album. Which I dont think they did. But I didnt base my judgement simply on one clip. I based it also on what others whom I trust have the same basic understanding as I do concerning mastering. And the sample combined with the later was what I drew my conclusion from. Is it perfect? No. But it is evidence imo. Enjoy the Elton John reissues!
Forget the sample. The mastering is not much off wack. The basic balance is pretty close to my original but just some loss of nuances which likely is down to digital transfer, different cutting or even the fact the tapes are 40 years older. There isn't a mastering 'style' to this series that makes them wildly different sounding from the originals especially as there are so many other variable involved with regard to transfer equipment, cutting, plating and pressing. If anything CF is the worst example you could choose to base the whole series on. I'm simply sick of people who make decisions based on samples posted on this forum - you are hearing primarily the effect of the domestic DAC used and computer (as well as your computer). Just adding yet another variable. I regard these as a good alternative to UK originals whether they are not quite so good or marginally better. If you want quiet surfaces without a significant downgrade in SQ they are the easiest way to go. If you tried some starting with maybe Tumbleweed you may be pleasantly surprised.
So I just A/B'd Your Song from S/T. The new edition and a U.K. DJM. I like the original DJM best but the new one is very good; crisp clear and actually not as loud as the original. Need to turn the new one up a couple of stops to equal the original. The vocals on the new edition is wonderful as is the orchestration and acoustic guitar. One strange note is that I know the new one is not a remix but the piano at the beginning and during the song seems more buried than on the original. Strange. Having said that, my original is a bit scratchy but not too bad. The reissue is great if you don't have a U.K. original or if you have an old USA version.
I just got the reissue of Don't Shoot Me. I like it a lot! I have only two things to compare it against: a noisy UNI (MCA?) original and the mid-90's CD remaster. This new reissue is my favorite. An original DJM is probably better, but I think many people would enjoy this reissue. Best part: It was only $13 on Amazon!
They did a great job on it. And yes, the prices are dropping - a fe of the titles were $13 - and some are even dropping in pre-order phase. The Big Picture went from $31 to $23. Empty Sky is $19.
Here's the deal: for some of us hearing the human voice (and certainly we can ALL agree that Elton in his prime is one of the best human voices ever recorded) slightly muted/dulled because it went through a needless digital step, is just as offensive if not more so than surface noise. That trade off has been discussed here at length. Typical of these types of polarizing issues, people dig into their trenches based on their beliefs and we get the non stop back and forth. I'm firmly in the source above all other variables type person, I will sit through long stretches of surface noise for the pay offs. In the case of the DJM EJ records, they sound the most musical. As you remove as many layers as possible between you and the performer. Those moments when the piano note sounds like a piano, played with effortless passion. The trademark Gus drum whack sound, the perfect lightness in Buckmaster's strings, and then THAT voice. As someone went there with the carnal reference, I'll raise: listening to digitally sourced music is like wearing a condom over your ears. I make these points respectfully, and I'm happy to read and take in everyone's opinion but I don't own a single digitally sourced album that I prefer over the AAA alternative. C
The only one I have is the RSD 11-17-70 and it actually sounds much better than my UK and US copies. And largely in the voice interestingly enough.
I knew I had one on my mental list. I'll add it to the spreadsheet, so I actually follow through on it.
Anyone with strong opinions on these reissues who hasn't actually bought any of them should really not be taken very seriously. I have purchased all of them and compared several to my originals (MCA and UNI) and honestly these are fantastic reissues. Much better than many other reissue campaigns. There is very little if anything to not like about these sound wise. I don't have UK DJMs to compare to but I honestly don't think that is really important. If you have original DJMs in pristine playing condition then I would probably pass on these. But most of us don't have those and this is by far the next best thing. I was hoping Analogue Productions or Mobile Fidelity would tackle most of Elton's catalog on vinyl, but now we have these to enjoy! I was most impressed with self titled, Captain Fantastic and Caribou. But they all have something to offer especially if you have mostly listened to the CDs of these for years (I have original MCAs, Plaid back MCAs, Polydors and a few newer masters and these vinyl are better than all of them). If you are an Elton John fan who doesn't have pristine original UKs, these are not to be missed. I am surprised Michael Fremer hasn't reviewed any yet.
