Frank Zappa - Back on the Road: The Hologram Tour

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jjjos, Sep 21, 2017.

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  1. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ambient postpunk will never die

    Location:
    Calgary
    I think Steve probably hasn't considered the viewpoint that almost every fan has expressed. He seems to want to be a part of a celebration of Frank, but if the ZFT wasn't throwing papers at Dweezil and actually helped fund his ZPZ tours, then they could have some larger shows with guest appearances just like the early ZPZ shows. Also he says for 3-4 shows only. How many other alumni would be willing to tour this thing into the grave? A hologram doesn't need breaks or overtime, yet what living Zappa alumni would be willing to set up camp in this whole back on the road thing? More than likely it would be a hired backing band with the "occasional" guest alumni. You don't make a multi-million dollar investment in a hologram to play a few shows.

    I wonder what Zappa fan has not taken the oppourtunity to go see Dweezil's show? If I recall, the only ones who I can think of specifically said they wouldn't because it wasn't Frank, at it would be a pale imitation. Well I can't see any of those same type of fans going to see a hologram.
     
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  2. Saintbert

    Saintbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    Helsinki
    Ahmet and Diva Zappa's (attorneys') response to Dweezil's "Update":

    Twitter

    If this family dispute is making you sick, try taking it with your "spirit of the love of Frank’s music at the forefront." It sure gives a new meaning to the words "family" and "trust."
     
  3. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag God is love, but get it in writing.

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I've been to ZPZ twice. It's great. A friend of mine saw it before me and told me to go, and he was right.

    But really, @Hot Ptah made the best point, I think. Even if every Zappa fan was on board for this, that's a small audience, anyway. So I don't see how it's viable economically assuming this venture, like most ventures using cutting edge technologies, is expensive.
     
  4. Runicen

    Runicen Forum Resident

    I'll gladly second that. **** you, Ahmet.

    You know, in all of this, I'm pretty sure there's a strong legal case for abuse of the Trust. There are remedies for situations like these in corporations - are the rules so different when it comes to trusts?


    I've got a hard time with this approach. Even Belew's statement for why he backed out kind of rubbed me up the wrong way because of it.

    And, before I get started, let me state, I don't think Steve Vai or Adrian Belew are horrible people. I just disagree - strongly - with their positions.

    Basically, this is being talked about as if it's a sibling spat. It's not. Barring additional information being released, we know that Gail stole money from Dweezil. Yes, she was contractually obligated to split revenues and did not. That's theft by most any yard stick I can think to apply.

    Additionally, that stolen money is and was being used to prevent Dweezil Zappa from touring his father's music and, apparently, is also being used to prevent Dweezil Zappa from being able to use his own name in conjunction with his career as a touring musician independent of any billing for or involvement of his father's music. That is being carried out by Ahmet and Diva in their capacities as heads of the Zappa Family Trust.

    So, one family member steals from another and not only do other family members continue that injustice, but they double down and try to sue the other to prevent him from using his own, legal name in his field of work.

    You can love someone all you want and respect Frank all you want - all while acknowledging his "love of family" - and still feel a compulsion to have a "come to Jesus" talk with anyone carrying out that level of injustice. I'd even go so far to say that affection for another person demands that you try to set them back on the path to righteousness rather than shrugging and saying "it's not my business."

    You can say there's no right or wrong when it comes to people wanting to wade into the legal morass in support of Dweezil, but there's clearly a right and wrong in this situation.

    What's the line about "this not being a court of justice but a court of law?" Seems to apply here. Any sane measure would have thrown this whole mess out and probably ordered a few weeks in the stockade for Ahmet and Diva for wasting everyone's time with this crap.
     
  5. It's so refreshing when a parent can hand down a passion of theirs to their kids. Frank handed down his passion for music to Dweezil and Gail apparently handed down her passion for litigation to Ahmet.
     
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  6. Burning Tires

    Burning Tires Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    What Dweezil said!
     
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  7. KDubATX

    KDubATX A Darby Man Never Says When

    Location:
    Austin
    I briefly got miffed with Adrian concerning the whole KC material grumpiness with RF, but I agree with his perspective on this one.

    Adrian Belew Will Not Participate in Frank Zappa Hologram Tour


    Adrian Belew
    on Sunday

    here are my final thoughts on the entire Zappa affair: respectfully count me out.
    I will not be playing Zappa music in the foreseeable future in any situation.
    this whole thing is far too caustic and divisive.

    I will say I have always admired Dweezil for playing his father's music and playing it so damn perfectly. I remember time spent with young Moon and how much I really liked her. recently I met Diva for the first time (she works on Billy Bob Thornton's tour) and she was ...
     
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  8. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ambient postpunk will never die

    Location:
    Calgary
    Holograms? WWFD

    I just noticed this posting from DZ on this very subject of the hologram.
     
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  9. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag God is love, but get it in writing.

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I was only talking about being yay or nay as far as a Frank hologram. I wasn't getting into the right or wrong of the family feud. And as an attorney, I wouldn't draw any conclusions as to who has a legal right to do what based on what I read in the media and social media, including twitter. That's not how we operate (the good ones, anyway).

    As a fan, I've already expressed in this thread my displeasure with anything that makes it harder for Dweezil to perform his dad's stuff live. As far as the legality of illegality of what's going on with the Trust and its actions, I don't have an opinion.
     
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  10. Quincy

    Quincy Senior Member

    Location:
    Willamette Valley
    I have no desire to see a hologram Zappa show. However, if I was forced between attending a hologram show where the supporting musicians can still play their parts, vs. some of the current touring acts consisting of musicians born in the 1940s, where parts are simplified and slowed down, with extra keyboards added when there were none, back up singers doubling the lead vocals, prerecorded vocals used for difficult parts and other trickery, I’d probably take the show with the damn hologram.
     
  11. Runicen

    Runicen Forum Resident

    On the legal front, the only thing I can really state with absolute certainty is that it should be legally wrong (as it is morally wrong) that attempts are apparently being made to bar Dweezil from using his own name as a musician. Beyond that, point well taken.

    And you're absolutely right on the matter of the hologram. While I appreciate it as a bit of technical spectacle, it's strictly subjective on my part that I don't find it tasteful to "resurrect" a performer via that medium. That doesn't make it inherently wrong to do it.
     
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  12. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ambient postpunk will never die

    Location:
    Calgary
    I would say it's an overwhelming majority of the public and artists who would also find it distasteful to "resurrect" a performer, so the bias towards objectionable taste becomes more clear. I don't know how the hip hop community feels about the Tupac and Eazy-E holograms, but I've yet to read anything positive about the Zappa hologram.
     
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  13. Billy Infinity

    Billy Infinity Beloved aunt

    Location:
    US
    From Adrian Belew's Facebook:

    Ahmet Zappa issued the following statement to Pollstar of behalf of the ZFT, “I respect that Denny Walley and Adrian had a change of heart since we last spoke, but my hope is that once they see the artistry of the technology, how it honors my father and provides an incredible Zappa experience, they’ll change their minds – they’re the best and the door is always open for them to come back.”

    so there you have it. just for the record my decision to decline had more to do with my already overstuffed schedule and the need to keep creating my own new music than anything else.

    the end.
     
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  14. philly67

    philly67 Forum Resident

    since the ZFT won't let Dweezil use his name, i wonder if he grew Franks goatee what the reaction would be?
     
  15. danner

    danner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    He should perform wearing this:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    What happened to the Kickstarter "save the vault" campaign and the "Who the F*@% is Frank Zappa" documentary?

    It makes you wonder that Ahmet and Diva sold them off for a handful of magic beans in the guise of a hologram tour.


    Who the F*@% is Frank Zappa (Save the Vault, Tell the Story)

    NO FAKE FRANK :^[-
     
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  17. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    Zappa is rolling in his grave at the sight of this, and the way his kids are feuding with each other.
    This is true ugliness personified.
     
  18. NicoRock

    NicoRock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin
    What are we doing??? Remixing the Beatles albums... touring an Hologram Zappa...
    Is there really nothing new out there?
     
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  19. ailgin

    ailgin Forum Resident

    What are we doing??? Posting the same posts about the Beatles remixes... in a Zappa thread... Is there really nothing new to post?
     
  20. Roberto899

    Roberto899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    It's Steve Hoffman forum. There can be no thread that doesn't contain a reference to the Beatles. Or The Monkees.
     
  21. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Including Frank.

    I'm glad Steve is sticking to his guns on this one. It's hard to go against the pitchforks and torches. It's shameful how Adrian Belew was treated on Facebook, especially after getting all of the KC drama behind him.

    Some non-fans may go just for the spectacle and technology, but all the more reason the real fans would be put off.

    This is why I won't take sides.

    Dweezil tells a terrible story, but how much of it does anyone know to be true? Even the parts that are true can be framed to make look Dweezil look sympathetic even if Ahmet and Diva are in the right legally (if not morally).

    Do I think Dweezil has been wronged in some way by Gail, Ahmet, and Diva? Yeah. Do I think he is being victimized as much as he portrays to the public? Nah. I don't buy it. Not all of it.

    Although I've seen ZPZ four times and have always appreciated the hard work he put into playing Frank's music, I've never been "all in" on Dweezil.

    For instance, does anyone else find it strange that Dweezil never plays his own music live? He's released six albums (eight if you count, Z). Yet, the only music he plays live is Frank's and Jimi Hendrix's. Why? Julian Lennon plays his own music. So does Sean. And Ziggy Marley. For those guys, the pull to play their father's music is much greater and the degree of difficulty for Julian and Ziggy is quite low. Yet, they play their own. Why doesn't Dweezil?

    Another thing: At what point have the Zappa kids been self-sufficient? I mean, Frank and Gail didn't just kick Dweezil out when he was 18, did they? At what age was Dweezil financially independent? 23? 25? Ever? We're told the ZFT had (and has) no money. Did Gail live off of credit cards for the last two decades?

    Now, Dweezil says that the family took 100% of this or that but never put any money into the ZPZ tour. What? Am I supposed to believe that Dweezil took two years to learn Frank's music while living off of his Normal Life and Duckman money?

    "But, Ahmet has cooked up this hairbrained hologram tour." Yeah. He's the son of a man who tried to open Thing-Fish on Broadway. Should we really be that surprised?

    Taking Dweezil's side is fine, but I, also, don't think the blinding hatred that I've seen for Ahmet and Diva is justified. I know many of you will disagree.
     
  22. kaztor

    kaztor Music is the Best

    You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore - The Hologram Tour.

    Nah, just doesn't sound right...
     
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  23. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag God is love, but get it in writing.

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    When the Zappa family brouhaha became public after Gail's death, my brother and I were making exactly this point to each other--you can't know with anything approaching absolute certainty what's really going on between them and why. We actually started joking about it. We're naturally sympathetic to Dweezil, but he's the oldest son, looks like his dad, plays great guitar, and tours the music. Of course we sympathize with him. Not only for those reasons, but still. Like what if behind the scenes he's saying stuff like, in a really evil voice, "Look, I look like him, I play the guitar, and I've learned the music and it is I who can tour it. The legacy should be mine, all mine!" [evil, maniacal laughter]

    I'm being ridiculous, of course, but it's hard to know who is legally, ethically, morally or otherwise "right" in this situation. But if the Trust is making it unreasonably hard for Dweezil to tour the music, that just sucks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
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  24. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Dweezil could be a great guy, for all I know. But, what if he's not? And, what if control of ZFT had been left to him? Look like him. Play the guitar. Learned the music. Can tour with it. Then, having control of all the recordings, trademarks, etc. That's ALL the leverage. The other three might as well not exist, at that point.

    I agree with all of this.
     
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  25. Toomanydogs

    Toomanydogs Forum Resident

    Location:
    Terrapin Station
    Nope
     
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