At last! The STEELY DAN Album-By-Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ohnothimagen, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. sloaches

    sloaches Forum Resident

    Good thing I have my copy!

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  2. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Hmm - I wasn't actually going after the singles though.

    This is a "stand-alone" album that's part of the Nightfly Trilogy (on CD) and Cheap X-mas (on mp3) collections. Or bonus tracks on Steely Dan Gold (Extended Edition), The Nightfly (MVI), Kamakiriad (MVI) and Morph The Cat (MVI).

    It might be helpful to detail the MVI package at this point - without reviewing the albums themselves.

    MVI was a format Warner tried to launch when DVD-A started to fail. Basically - The Nightfly Trilogy has 4 jewel boxes in it: one for each of the trilogy (CD+DVD), and a 4th for a Rarities disc (CD only).

    [​IMG]

    There are 7 discs total - 4 Red Book audio CDs and 3 MVI DVDs. The Red Book audio CDs are plain CDs - not enhanced in any way. They are the standard masterings of The Nightfly, Kamakiriad, and Morph The Cat - plus an album called Trilogy: 10 Extras.

    The 3 DVDs are enhanced audio DVD discs - they play with DTS 5.1 surround and Advanced Resolution PCM stereo on DVD players. They also provide complimentary MP3s when you use them on PCs. They correspond to The Nightfly, Kamakiriad and Morph The Cat. Not DVD-As, though - sadly.

    Each of the MVI discs also contain bonus tracks, videos and interviews. There are 10 bonus music tracks in total - spread across each of the MVI discs. The bonus tracks match the Trilogy: 10 Extras album - but they're all in different order.

    If that wasn't confusing enough - when Sunken Condos came out, Reprise took the content from the 4 CDs in this package and added it to Sunken Condos - creating a 5 disc collection called Cheap X-mas. Sadly, though, the US never got physical media of this collection - just digital distribution. Still - this collection treats Trilogy: 10 Extras as a stand-alone "album" - just as the Nightfly Trilogy did.

    To me - this stand alone album merits evaluation. But - I'm not quite sure how we want to handle it.

    Possibly - when we do the compilation section, that might be the time to detail the Nightfly Trilogy boxset and the Cheap X-mas compilation. We could do the Trilogy: 10 Extras album at that time, if folks agree.

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
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  3. audiotom

    audiotom I can not hear a single sound as you scream

    Location:
    New Orleans La USA
    Babylon Sisters

    Ancient Babylon - a decadent culture

    Quite the brilliant song teetering between a man's fantacies, under age joyriding, and cold reality.

    Our protagonist has picked up two younger women this evening.
    Most likely they are underage (cotton candy)
    Not prostitutes, just curious young ladies
    that want to go on a road trip - not a "date".

    Chances are they are coming from half way across the valley
    "Want to ride to the ocean in my convertable ..."

    They turn the girls "louder music" down
    (I see this as a young girl's load musical tastes - music someone his age would never be caught listening to. The doesn't want to be spotted on his home turf as he is leaving)

    As they reach the ocean via Sunset Blvd. around Venice Beach they leave the car.
    Stare at the lights across the way to Malibu.

    He fantasizes their feelings for him
    "Tell me I'm the only one" "end of our perfect day"

    Like a sunday in Tijuana
    Giving them a joy ride is "cheap but it's not free"
    Drinks too.

    He fantacizes a threesome
    As he watches the Young ladies (Babylonian Sisters) dancing

    The Santa Anna winds are a warm reality slap in the face.
    When the wind blows from the east it is hot parched air off the desert.
    This sexual fantasy isn't happening

    He is basically out with two teenage friends who are going together for fun.
    What they perceive is a relatively harmless thrill seeking with an older guy with wheels.
    Neither has any interest in him - nether wants to go alone - they enjoying their own company in this fun escape.


    He is delusional and later thinks If he can get them drunk.. who knows

    "San Francisco Show and Tell"
    During that time period San Franciso was the mecca of gay lifestyle in America. He invisions a lesbian relationship

    As he sees his hopes diminish he would like their affection as friends to lead to a wonderful girl on girl Passionate evening With him having a center row seat.

    He sees there focus on each other as friends ( it's not sexual even though his mind is thinking it is - he feels himself being passed by)

    Loved not a game for three - he is a spectator at best

    Actually he wakes up from his dillusions

    Live and learn

    He's caught with the jailbait drunk girls by the law
    Parents are called

    And his only gratification was in his head.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
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  4. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!" Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    Well, I already ordered the Hoskyns book (already have the Sweet and FAQ books- both are absolutely essential)...lord knows there aren't enough Steely Dan books out there as it is so I'll take whatever I can get. I should pick up the 331/3 series Aja book at some point as well, I suppose.
    In the case of Out Door, IMO the biggest mistake with the album isn't Page's lack of involvement or even the overabundance of synthesizers, it's the fact that they had better material to work with than what they used on the finished album (i.e. passing over "Ozone Baby" or "Wearing And Tearing" in favour of, say, "South Bound Suarez"?) Now, I haven't heard the Gaucho leftovers/outtakes in years ("Kulee Baba" etc) but my guess is ultimately Becker and Fagen went with the best material they had at the time on the album.
    Monday night, probably, if the Gaucho discussion is wound up by them.
    Thing with Mark Knopfler's work on "Time Out Of Mind" is that he is totally underutilized and mixed way too low- it's as if Becker and Fagen really weren't completely happy with his playing on the song but after the trouble they went to to fly him in from England for the session- and then putting him through his paces in order to prepare for the session- they didn't have the heart to scrap his work, just bury it a bit. The main guitar solo, for example, isn't Knopfler, it's the "Do It Again"/"Bad Sneakers" electric sitar making another appearance (played by Becker, perhaps?)
    The Fagen odds and ends will be discussed along with all the other odds and ends at the end of the discussion (after Everything Must Go in other words). I admit I have yet to hear all of that stuff myself...
    Thank you! Those are some pretty exotic chords and changes they've got going on there.
    Which is crazy, when ya think on it. It is considered one of their 'greatest hits', still gets a lot of airplay and is a fan favourite as well as a perennial staple of their live shows. It'd be like not including "Brown Sugar" on a Stones comp.
    Nice interpretation. Like I said, my kid loves "Babylon Sisters"- if his mum actually paid attention to the words she'd probably be like "I don't want him listening to that anymore!":laugh:
     
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  5. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    But - as a complete album right? I actually really like Trilogy: 10 extras. I've been listening to it today in preparation.

    Also - after Everything Must Go (2003) - we're still doing Morph The Cat (2006), Circus Money (2008) & Sunken Condos (2012) as stand alone albums before we tackle the odds and ends right? (Preview: Those are some of my faves. :) )

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
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  6. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!" Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    Of course- the album-by-album proper ends with Sunken Condos...then we'll get into the extra tracks, live stuff etc.

    Like I said the other day, we're only halfway done...got a long ways to go still.

    The Gaucho discussion has been a lot less divisive than I thought it was gonna be.
     
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  7. Hoops

    Hoops Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    From my response to the Gaucho thread, reposted for context:

    Many years ago, I played in a Steely Dan tribute band. Mind you, I wasn’t a full-time member, but I filled in from time to time on one or the other of their two keyboard chairs. And at this time, I was still on the younger side, while the regulars in the band were older A-list pros, so it was sometimes kind of stressful.

    The title track from Gaucho was in the set, and after doing it with the band for the first time, I was pleasantly surprised at how easily it plays. You would think from listening to it, with its angular phrasing, that it would require a lot of concentration, but it is so elegantly put-together and has such a relaxed and stately groove that it pretty much plays itself. Everything flows directly from the melody. It became my favorite tune to play, and a much-needed respite from worrying about negotiating the intro to Your Gold Teeth II, or copping the approximately eight gazillion different piano fills in Sign In Stranger!
     
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  8. Hoops

    Hoops Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    [continued from above]

    I gotta say, when I was offered that gig, as a young guy playing rock (but with an academic music background), I was not that into Steely Dan. I pretty much, for no good reason except laziness, had bought into the standard rock crit orthodoxy that Steely Dan was “uncommonly well-crafted schlock,” slick and soulless studio cats essentially playing lite-jazz with lyrics.

    It didn’t help that at the time, I was living in San Diego, which was something of a lite-jazz epicenter. There was even a popular local radio station playing that sort of music at the time that ran TV ads with the slogan: “I don’t like jazz . . . but I like this!” So I had a sort of young musician’s scorn for it.

    Then I had to sit down and actually learn a couple dozen or more Steely Dan tunes. And the scales fell from my eyes . . .

    Now I am happy to say that the experience of having had to sit down and dissect 30 or so Steely Dan tunes taught me at least as much as any given year’s worth of academic experience. I was young and dumb when I first encountered Steely Dan, but that music has stood me in good stead and continues to reveal new and great things to me these many decades hence. Thanks Don and Walt!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
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  9. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!" Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    You raise an interesting point, Hoops- one could almost make the claim (especially where Aja and Gaucho are concerned) that Steely Dan can seem like "jazz for people who don't like jazz". As for me, all Steely Dan did was whet my appetite for hearing more jazz- like I said earlier in the discussion I freely admit the Dan were my gateway drug for getting into Monk, Brubeck, Davis etc. I'm still a bit of a novice when it comes to jazz, but it's Becker and Fagen's fault I started investigating the genre at all.
     
  10. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!" Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    The Nightfly flies tonight. Talk about Gaucho amongst yerselves until then...
     
  11. Bern

    Bern JC4Me

    Location:
    Allegan, Michigan
    That's me. I've had very little jazz over the years..just not for me. Probably why Aja/Gaucho weren't among my faves.

    Bern
     
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  12. sloaches

    sloaches Forum Resident

    "Won't you pour me a Cuban Breeze, Gretchen?"
     
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  13. Black Thumb

    Black Thumb Yah Mo B There

    Location:
    Reno, NV
    To sum up, Gaucho is a classic example of reaching huge commercial and critical success and asking "what the hell do we do now?". Some artists make a sharp left turn.

    Nightfly68 aptly mentioned Tusk several pages back, and Stevie Wonder is another contemporary example: after hitting the pinnacle with Songs In The Key Of Life, he goes quiet for a couple of years and comes back with a sprawling double album about ... plants.

    After Aja, the quest for the perfect sound took Donald and Walter into a labyrinth of endless takes and technological obsession. It's no wonder they'd reached the end of a road (not THE road) by November 1980.
     
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  14. katywu

    katywu Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I may have forgotten this fact over the years but I'm quite surprised at the number of tracks that Donald and Walter never played on at all.......I know this continued with 2AN with at least one track........anyone got a count?
     
  15. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!" Thread Starter

    Location:
    Canada
    I'm not sure if we can get an accurate count simply because some of the credits on the records don't specify by who plays what on what song...we can only guess, really. But yeah- between the info in the FAQ book and some of the posts in this thread I was surprised by their occasional lack of instrumental involvement on some of the records. Don't get me wrong- Becker and Fagen both managed to make their musical presence felt (i.e. Becker's guitar solos, Fagen's synth playing) but though they never made good on Walter's threat not to play on their records at all certainly some records got more involvement from them than others. It seems to me that simply based on the pros they hired my guess is that Katy Lied and The Royal Scam are the albums they played least on.
     
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  16. GlamorProfession

    GlamorProfession Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tejas
    i haven't been on this thread all weekend so someone may have answered...playing catch up....i'm about 6 pages behind.

    so i listened to the dvd-audio over the weekend and i believe all the horns are indeed mixed in the rear channels. so you could mix those out but know that you would also be missing out on some tasty background vocals along with some guitar chirping in here and there, as well as some cool percussion stuff (especially on Glamour Profession).
     
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  17. Jason Pumphrey

    Jason Pumphrey Forum Resident

    Yes, one, 20th Century Masters The Millennium Collection.
    For some odd reason they seem to prefer to put Babylon Sisters on the comps. instead.
     
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  18. GlamorProfession

    GlamorProfession Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tejas
    i've wondered about that too. i'll take a stab.
    he's saying Hollywood, i know what you're about...i know your reputation. like someone might say "that dude is trouble!...yep, trouble is his middle name"
     
  19. Scurvy

    Scurvy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    That's how I interpret it.
     
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  20. Jason Pumphrey

    Jason Pumphrey Forum Resident

    Spandex jackets for everyone, LOL!
     
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  21. DrBeatle

    DrBeatle The Rock and Roll Chemist

    Location:
    Midwest via Boston
    Doesn't Walter only play on 3 of the 7 cuts on Gaucho? At least Fagen sings every song (apart from the handful on the debut handled by Palmer or Hodder).
     
  22. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    It's interesting though.

    So - Fleetwood Mac spends an inordinate amount of time recording Rumours. So much time doing overdubs that the bass and drums partially erased themselves from the session tapes. Ken Calliat: "Still, it was also at Heider's that we almost lost the album, due to the tape wearing out. We listened to everything loud, and I started saying, 'Are my ears going or does this sound duller than usual? It seems like I'm adding more top end all the time.' Eventually I turned to the second engineer and asked him to clean the heads, and when he did this I noticed there was a lot of shedding going on. Every pass we had to stop and clean the heads, but still we pushed on, trying to get the work done, until finally I said, 'Maybe there's a bigger problem here. Maybe we're doing damage.'"

    [T]he guys there told us that, with two 24-track machines in each room, their usual procedure was to run both on the backing tracks. I remembered that we had these simultaneous first-generation masters. I said, 'There is a solution, guys. We could possibly transfer all of the overdubs back to the other tape and use the new drums.' They said, 'You can do that?' and I said, 'I think so.' They said, 'Well, let's do it!' Of course, back then we didn't have any time code, so we didn't have any way to sync the tapes up, and I therefore called around and found a real technical guy at ABC Dunhill who thought he could do it. We went there and put the tapes up, and we manually transferred them side by side.

    "Tape machines will never run at the same speed twice, so this guy put a pair of headphones on, and he put the hi-hat and snare from the original tape in his left ear, and the hi-hat and snare from the safety master in his right ear, and we kept marking the tape and hitting 'start' on both machines at the same time until it was close enough at the beginning, and then he would use the VSO [vari-speed oscillator] on one of the machines, carefully adjusting the speed slightly and basically playing it like an instrument, keeping the two kick drums and snare drums in the centre of his head. If he put his headphones in the right direction, as one machine moved faster than the other, the image in his head would move to the right. So he would turn the VSO to the left, and basically it was like steering it. I tried that a couple of times and it nearly scrambled my brain, but he did that all night long and saved our butts. Rumours would have been dead, just about. What a coincidence that we'd just happened to record double basic tracks."

    So - for Tusk - you're definitely right. Rather than overdubbing like crazy - they do takes in Lindsay's garage and make the world's most expensive indie album.

    It seems like Steely Dan - instead of taking a left turn - doubled down from Aja to Gaucho. Like - "Aja was okay - but we didn't get to do 50 takes on the fadeouts - we can fix that with Gaucho." :D

    It is interesting, though, that I did have the same feeling when I first heard Gaucho, Tusk, and In Through The Out Door. Namely - "what the hell?". :D

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  23. sekaer

    sekaer Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Maybe because of the subject matter?
     
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  24. HeavensAbove

    HeavensAbove Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sacramento
    "Jazz and conversation"
     
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  25. Black Thumb

    Black Thumb Yah Mo B There

    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Calling Maxine and wrapping up a little blue jar for her, tuning the radio to WJAZ.
     
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