Classical Corner Classical Music Corner

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 29, 2015.

  1. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    This sort of thing can easily wander off into the wilds of politics, but doing my best to stay strictly musical and historical, a few points:

    1) There's nothing to be ashamed of in not liking Wagner's music; I myself have said more than once that if I never hear the Prelude and Liebestod from Tristan und Isolde again, it will be too soon. Richard Wagner was without a doubt the most unsympathetic human being among the major composers. Even leaving aside his (probably in part self-serving) antisemitism, he was a megalomaniacal, self-promoting cad, and I find those unattractive qualities come through loud and clear in a lot of his music. BUT....

    2) Listening to his music on records really doesn't give you the full flavor of what he accomplished. Before you write him off, although not necessarily immediately, I'd recommend you get a really good video of his Ring operas--maybe from the library or via YouTube or such to avoid expense--and give them a try. As noted above, I am not the world's greatest Wagnerian, but when I watched a PBS broadcast of a Met Ring cycle years and years back, being dutiful as a music lover and fully expecting to be repulsed, I found that what was not terribly attractive to me on records makes for extremely effective, enjoyable music theater. You simply can't get the full flavor of Wagner's art until you see it as well as hear it. (I would recommend a "traditional" staging, but you may have other ideas, depending on your tolerance for modern directorial revisionism, such as setting the operas in a subway or the like.)

    3) While Wagner's personal beliefs were repugnant and pretty much tailor-made for exploitation by the German Reich, he died long before the regime came along, and it was masterful at harnessing any and everything even remotely adaptable for purposes of its propaganda machine. Many other musicians who left us art of enduring value also in one way or another blotted their copybooks during that period, sometimes enthusiastically and wholeheartedly so, and writing off anyone so compromised can cut you off from a lot of treasurable music(making). Note that Arturo Toscanini, the conductor on your record, was a famous, outspoken antifascist, who went into exile from his beloved Italy, where he was revered as an artistic treasure, rather than comply with the demands of Mussolini, yet he continued to conduct Wagner literally to the end of his career--his last concert, one of only two recorded in stereo, was an all-Wagner program. It's a delicate, personal issue, but one approach that I've found useful was set out by Toscanini himself, speaking of Richard Strauss: "To Richard Strauss the composer, I doff my hat. To Richard Strauss the man, I put it back on again."

    4) Welcome to the Toscanini appreciation society. You'll find much to admire in his recordings in your explorations.

    With all that said, I'll second George's statement above: I'm sure you'll find plenty of music to keep you listening happily for a long time, and I wish you the very best on your journeys finding it!
     
    royzak2000 and Kundera the joke. like this.
  2. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    [​IMG]
    Giuseppe Martucci
    Piano Trios Nos. 1 and 2
    Trio Vega
    Naxos, 2015
    excellent
     
  3. Kundera the joke.

    Kundera the joke. Senior Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thank you for taking the time to write such an interesting reply. Much appreciated.

    Maybe it’s an association ‘block’ that, one day, I might be able to overcome, but not just yet. If I feel like giving it another shot I will certainly take your advice regarding watching the Ring cycle.

    I did find ‘Lohengrin, Act 1: Prelude’ an incredibly beautiful piece. It was here, in the strings, I was able to hear his genius.

    As for Toscanini, I will most certainly be looking for more. :tiphat:
     
  4. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]
    At under $50, this might be a way to go - Amazon.com: Buying Choices: Arturo Toscanini - The Essential Rec Ordings
     
    JMR likes this.
  5. Kundera the joke.

    Kundera the joke. Senior Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    George P likes this.
  6. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Thanks for posting that--I was unaware it existed. Probably not something I need, since I have the big "complete" RCA box from a few years back, but good to know it's out there. Are the transfers/masterings the same as in the big box? If so, they are on balance quite good.

    If you look closely at the "selected by" line, it mentions Harvey Sachs. He wrote the definitive biography of Toscanini, published a follow-on collection of Toscanini's letters, and has written extensively about the conditions that prevailed in classical music between the World Wars. At the very least, I'd suggest putting the biography on your reading list; it's a model of what such things should be, and Toscanini, for better or worse, was probably the single pivotal figure in the transition from the 19th century way of conducting to what we consider the "modern" way (although he himself was firmly grounded in the former, having been born in the 1860s, a good generation before conductors like Furtwangler and Walter who are usually considered his "contemporaries").
     
    Kundera the joke. likes this.
  7. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Yeah, I haven't confirmed it, but I would have to assume it is the same transfers.
     
  8. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Princeton Record Exchange in New Jersey recently acquired 1,200 Classical SACDs;

     
    JuniorMaineGuide likes this.
  9. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    Via the new big Columbia Box, I am enjoying the 1953 mono recording shown above.
     
  10. JuniorMaineGuide

    JuniorMaineGuide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boulder, Colorado
    [​IMG]

    The Seattle Symphony has announced Thomas Dausgaard will be its new music director after Ludovic Morlot steps down in 2019. He has been our principal guest conductor for a few years and I am a big fan -- some standout concerts I can recall have been Mahler's 10th symphony and Strauss's Four Last Songs / Alpine Symphony. Is anyone else familiar with him or his recordings?
     
  11. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Paul Daniel
    English Northern Philharmonia
    Walton: Symphony No. 2
    Viola Concerto [Lars Anders Tomter, viola]
    Johannesburg Festival Overture
    Naxos, 1996
    [​IMG]
    I find Paul Daniels series of Walton discs on Naxos interesting and well-played. For the Symphony No. 2, don't miss the George Szell version and for the viola concerto I also like the Bashmet with Andre Previn.
     
  12. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    George Szell
    Cleveland Orchestra
    Walton: Symphony No. 2
    Partita
    Variations
    Sony, 1991
    recorded in 1961.
    The sound is excellent in this remastering.
    [​IMG]
     
    George P likes this.
  13. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Yuri Bashmet
    London Symphony Orchestra
    Andre Previn
    Walton: Concerto for Viola
    Bruch: Concerto for Violin & Viola; Romance for Viola; Kol Nidrei
    Neeme Jarvi
    RCA, 1998
    the Walton recorded in 1994
    [​IMG]
     
  14. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    With Szell conducting, I bet it's great!
     
    dale 88 likes this.
  15. Scope J

    Scope J Senior Member

    Location:
    Michigan
  16. scompton

    scompton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    I have some of his recordings in Dacapo of 20th century Scandinavian composers that are all great. The Berwald symphonies and Zemlinsky albums on Chandos are good. I have some of the Opening Doors series on BIS. They’re chamber orchestra performances of romantic symphonies. They’re a mixed bag. In general, the later the composition, the less I like it.
     
    JuniorMaineGuide likes this.
  17. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    From the above box set, now enjoying wind quintets by Mozart and Beethoven, as played by Serkin and the Philadelphia Woodwind Quintet recorded in 1953.
     
    RiRiIII likes this.
  18. andolink

    andolink Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    music by Cooke, Matteo da Perugia, Machaut and Anon.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Scope J

    Scope J Senior Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    np:
    [​IMG]
     
    andolink likes this.
  20. andolink

    andolink Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Chaya Czernowin: the quiet, for large orchestra divided into 3 groups (the crescendo trilogy part I); zohar iver (blind radiance), for ensemble and orchestra divided into 3 groups (the crescendo trilogy part II); esh, for orchestra with countertenor (the crescendo trilogy part III)
    Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks/Brad Lubman
    Ensemble Nikel
    Berner Symphonieorchester/Mario Venzago
    Kai Wessel, countertenor
    Philharmonisches Orchester Cottbus/Evan Christ

    [​IMG]
     
    scompton likes this.
  21. Scope J

    Scope J Senior Member

    Location:
    Michigan
  22. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    I am looking forward to listening to these 3 boxes which arrived today.

    [​IMG]
    Pro Arte Quartet
    Haydn: 29 String Quartets
    recorded for His Master's Voice in London before the war interrupted the series.
    Warner, 2017
    7CD


    [​IMG]
    Paul Badura-Skoda
    Schubert: the Complete Piano Sonatas
    RCA, 2017
    from 1971
    12CD

    [​IMG]
    Nicholas Angelich
    Brahms: Piano Works, Piano Concertos, Chamber Music
    Erato, 2017
    10 CD
    recorded 2003-2009
     
  23. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    By coincidence, these are my current "transfer" project from my own 78s. The records, or at least a good part of them, like those of Schnabel's Beethoven, were "society" issues--sort of a granddaddy of crowdfunding, the system being that through advertising a group of interested buyers would be assembled from the general public to pre-subscribe to the issues as members of a "Society" (the Hugo Wolf Society, the Beethoven Society, the Sibelius Society, what have you), with the proceeds funding production of the recordings by HMV. In return, subscribers got at least theoretically exclusive rights to receive the first two volumes of the series, although I think in some cases later buyers could obtain them by paying a big premium. The Haydn Quartet Society sponsored several seven-record albums, generally with four but sometimes with five quartets in each; the series eventually ran to eight in total, although I'm not sure but what by the end the Society system may have been dropped in favor of regular funding by the record company. In the United States, Victor issued something like five or six of them, but not, of course, society volumes I and II.

    My progress is that I've copied all the records at this point and edited the first two quartets represented, op. 1 nos. 1 and 6. I must say, in listening to the records as I copied them, I've become very fond of the Pro Arte group's way with this music. Irving Kolodin found fault with the technique of first violinist and quartet founder Alphonse Onnou in certain fast passages, and once my attention was directed to it I could hear what he meant, but it really doesn't bother me much. Overall, these are warm, loving accounts that convey a sense of rightness, of joy within an ordered framework. That's not to say that they lack for vigor--far from it--but just that the Pro Arte group is intensely musical, tempering the vigor with lovely, rounded playing that lets Haydn speak with his uniquely sane, satisfying voice. Note that the players were Belgians and reflected the old Belgian school of string playing, nowadays largely supplanted by the rather more aggressive Russian school that even then was in the ascendancy. [Edit] Note too, HIPsters need not apply, or at least had better be ready to suspend any insistence on "historically correct" performance practice. The Pro Arte group makes music, not academic points.

    If you find that you like the Pro Arte's sound, I'd recommend chasing down a copy of their recording of the fist Brahms string sextet (with added players Alfred Hobday and Anthony Pini). Deeply beautiful playing in the Romantic mold, again more or less a thing of the past today.
     
  24. JuniorMaineGuide

    JuniorMaineGuide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boulder, Colorado
    You make a very strong case for checking out these recordings! :)
     
  25. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Thanks for all of the information on the Pro Arte Quartet. I have only listened to the first disc, but I do like their playing so far. The credits say "New remastering from the best sources available by Christophe Henault at Art & Son Studio, Annecy." I am sure there must be a lot of processing to lower the noise floor to this level, but I am still glad to hear their art.
    "Recorded 1939-1938."
    Some excerpts from the notes:
    "as for their interpretation of Stravinsky, Ernest Ansermet has given an account of their first meeting with the composer: 'One day some young musicians asked Stravinsky if he would be willing to give his opinion of the interpretation of his two string quartets that they had prepared. It is unusual for executants, especially the uninitiated, to be successful at a first attempt. Accustomed to tiresome lack of comprehension, Stravinsky, as a first step, asked his visitors to listen to the pianola transcriptions of his works. After this, modest and a little intimidated, they took up their instruments. From the very first note the composer was won over, and at the end of their performance, greatly moved, all he could do was to exclaim: "I have nothing to say! It was perfect! I have never heard my music interpreted with such truth."
    ...
    At Cambridge they played, between 1925 and 1938, a complete Beethoven cycle on more than one occasion, much Haydn and Mozart, and a series of historical recitals which included works by Vivaldi, Schubert, Brahms, Borodin and the moderns.
    ...
    At one of their recitals in an English provincial town in 1932 they played Bartok's Fourth Quartet (which was dedicated to them), and a fresh start had to be made because the audience did not realize that the tuning up had ended and the music had begun.
    ...
    Their records were made in the London studios of His Master's Voice between 1931 and 1938. [No. 3 Studio Abbey Road]. It was intended that they should record all of Haydn's quartets but the outbreak of war put an end to the plan. The Pro Arte Quartet's devotion to Haydn did not, incidentally, originate with the recording project, for they had played the complete cycle in Brussels, Antwerp and probably elsewhere, some years before 1931.
    ...
    David Bicknell, who was Head of the International Artist's Department of His Master's Voice and the producer of most of the Pro Arte Quartet's records, speaks of their evident passion for chamber music. He relates how, after a grueling six-hour recording session, Onnou and the others put their instruments into their cases, got into their coats, and everybody was ready to go home. The conversation turned to Bartok and, when the Pro Arte realized that nobody in the studio was familiar with his quartets, they got out their instruments, took off their coats, and played right through the First Quartet."

    The quartet was established in 1912/1913.
    [​IMG]
     
    crispi and drh like this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine