I understand the negative critiques. I've been guilty of the same crime, when knocking the bands & artists I love most. Because of albums or Individual songs I feel are inferior. Or personell changes that bothered me. New producer's I thought sucked and so on. But I think even the weakest Moodies stuff still has merit. What people are calling terrible or awful simply isin't true imo. Other side of life & Wildest dreams were big hit songs, especially the latter one. We all have opinions including me, I just think the criticism is a bit over the top.
Yes and no. While The Other Side of Life only reached No. 58 on the Billboard Hot 100, Your Wildest Dreams did rather better, reaching No. 9 in April 1986. But it’s not always wise to judge the quality of a song based on its chart position, as the song below demonstrates. This also reached No. 9 on the US Billboard Hot 100, back in 1970:
I bought TOSOL on cassette, and played the crap out it. I loved "Your Wildest Dreams", still do. Couldn't wait to see the video on MTV, it was always a thrill my 12 year old self. It was cool because I grew up hearing the Moodies through my dad, and now it felt like this was for me. I loved the cover art, some strange science lab with those phantom zone shots of the band. I hand-drew the logo because I thought that was cool. All the while I'd still throw on dad's copy of DOFP, LDV, SS, etc. The album helped ingrain a love for The Moodies through my musically experimental teenage years. I remember seeing the "TOSOL" video once or twice and thinking it was cool at the time. I have to admit I didn't remember Ray's, umm, look though. I haven't heard it in quite some time, other than the two singles. My cassette is long gone. I'll buy it on vinyl if I find one cheap. A (past/passed?) side question: Anybody else kinda find the SACD liner notes annoying in the repetition and carrying over of info from the previous albums? I wish they just focused on the album at hand more. I never saw anyone mention this, sorry if it's been brought up. Oh, and I love "This Is..." now, thanks guys, but why isn't "Gypsy" on there???
Higher & Higher Issue 26-27 Summer 1995 - Moody Blues Attitude It's a great article about a great record.
SUR LA MER Original track listing Side One "I Know You're Out There Somewhere" (Justin Hayward) – 6:37 "Want to Be with You" (Hayward, John Lodge) – 4:48 "River of Endless Love" (Hayward, Lodge) – 4:45 "No More Lies" (Hayward) – 5:13 "Here Comes the Weekend" (Lodge) – 4:13 Side Two "Vintage Wine" (Hayward) – 3:38 "Breaking Point" (Hayward, Lodge) – 4:56 "Miracle" (Hayward, Lodge) – 4:56 "Love Is on the Run" (Lodge) – 5:00 "Deep" (Hayward) – 6:50 Personnel Justin Hayward – guitars, vocals, keyboards, drum sequencing John Lodge – bass guitar, vocals, keyboards, drum sequencing Graeme Edge – drums, percussion Patrick Moraz – keyboards, synthesizers, arrangements Production Produced by Tony Visconti Engineered & Mixed By Tony Visconti, Paul Cartledge & Sam Smith Released 6 June 1988 Recorded 12 October 1987 – April 1988 at Good Earth Studios, Soho, London Genre Synthpop Length 50:56 Label Polydor
I like the first four songs on 'side one' and the first and last tracks on 'side two' - if the rest were of a similar style I'd have been pretty content even if no Ray Thomas and some rather thinner vocal harmonies plus rather dated 80's production etc...I would have accepted it and listened to it much more I'm sure but while 'Miracle' is o.k. as a song, the guitar is good, it's simply just not very 'moodies-ish' for me - and could be by any artist 'Here Comes The Weekend' ......was rather naff full stop - after it's 'Question' style opening guitar intro had promise.... it all goes downhill fast, the lyrics to me are banal, the instrumentation besides guitars sounds robotic (a decent late sax solo but it fails to lift it that much) - from the songwriter with such taste who once had penned thoughtful gems like; 'Evening Time To Get Away', 'House of Four Doors', 'Candle of Life', 'Isn't Life Strange', 'One More Time To Live' etc to just be apparently just warbling away about the forthcoming couple of days off work ....well even on a solo album it would be a notable weakspot, but a track on a Moodies album ??? funny but Ray's observational song 'Lazy Day' re a Sunday was a zillion miles away in inspiration and contemplation from this lightweight 'fluff' 'Love is On The Run (From Me)' - well I don't blame love one bit !! - sorry but again this is so forgettable I've almost forgotten it...an odd rather 'clunking' song that just 'lumbered around' is how best I can remember it... 'Breaking Point' - yes I've reached it ! - again after a promising intro sounds 'heavy handed' (for The Moodies almost unthinkable once upon a time) and frankly another rather tuneless number without any strong melody or much to recommend it Tho' overall Justin Hayward is on decent form with his solo compositions, I feel John Lodge rather lets SLM down somewhat with his two songs, while Hayward-Lodge chalk up a couple of good numbers and two 'fillers' Note Graeme Edge has here duly followed Ray Thomas out the door re the songwriting - a door Patrick Moraz could not get a foot in, when the band was loudly screaming out for as much songwriting creativity as it could obtain 'in house' surely ? there was about half a good album here, the opening track IKYOTS was fine and gave them another charting single, 'Had To Be With You' was nice (I like to imagine it's Ray on the welcome tambourine even tho' I know better), 'River of Endless Love' was perfectly fine too 'No More Lies' was a nice romantic number with a good instrumental portion to outro and fine guitarwork, it deserved to do better as a single 'Vintage Wine' I really liked too - it made a fine outro song for the 'Legend of A Band' video/DVD duly set over footage of the classic 'core seven' Moodies too 'Deep' - about sex !! - for me was actually rather er 'Deeper' and sounded the strongest number on the album harking back in atmosphere to their much more imaginative earlier era with some really 'prog/rock' aspects about it (shock horror) being more extended on the instrumental front - always a strength of The Moodies works Patrick Moraz was 'scaled back' somewhat on this album compared to TOSOL - they were recorded together the band later claimed despite a differing style - yet Patrick here still gave it a lot of atmospheric strength with some excellent keyboard work and overall I felt it 'flowed' better (on side one at least) a few more 'Moodies' style songs and less always trying to be so ultra 'modern' plus those weaker 'filler' tracks would have made SLM for me a much better album I can enjoy most of it, but tend to cherry pick the six or so songs I like, and try to forget the others.... for this (and indeed on the next album) really it was more apt the title; 'A Question of Consistency'
I definitely like Sur la Mer more than TOSOL and probably also more than December. I wouldn't say it's a good album, but I enjoy some songs on it, though the synthesizers ruin most of them. The songwriting is much better than on TOSOL, in my opinion. For me, the most controversial song here is River of Endlesss Love. I like the song itself very much. The title might be overblown, but the lyrics are uplifting and not painfully direct. The middle section is great, especially the second time round where these heavenly falsettos appear (in the silence, just before the dawn - just before the dawn . . . . we rise to greet the morning - aa-aah, aa-aaah!). It could have been another Meet Me Halfway, but I can't stand the arrangement - the opening flashy synth phrase (from Moraz?) getting slower and slower is yet another worst MB moment ever, and I dislike the final sax solo too. Such a shame. A similar problem with Miracle. Here the song itself is not as good, probably due to the cheesy month-checking lyrics, but again I find the middle section surprisingly well-written, in fact I can't recall anthing similar in the entire MB discography, it's remote, hypnotizing and strangely undercooked melodically, which shouldn't work, but works splendidly, with the massive climactic a-waaaay on top of it. BUT... though the guitar lick is promising, the rest of the instrumentation sounds abysmal to me, from the robotic bass drum, through the guitar solo, to the synthesized trumpets, the motif (2'09-2'13) leading up to the middle-section is almost physically painful to me (those horribly artificial semitones! ew!) The most consistently pleasant sound-wise seem to be Vintage Wine and Want to Be With You. Of course both have their share of plastic, but both rely on acoustic guitars on the verses , which is so refreshing. I like them both, though I consider River of Endless Love a much better composition. I like the middle section of Wine (another great middle section on the album!) and the chorus of WTBWY, with the uncharacteristic low Justin - high John harmony setting. The verses are quite moving too. Love Is On the Run is slightly more disappointing as for the production, but I like the song very much - the most touching electric guitar from Justin for years, and some very lovely vocal harmonies towards the end. The middle eight slightly overdone this time, but still good. One level down - IKYOTS and No More Lies. Both are fine, but I'm not excited over either. I like the message of IKYOTS, but I can't get through the sound. No More Lies sounds fine to me, but this time I don't believe the lyrics one bit. Great outro, though. Which leaves only three songs that I would firmly dismiss as bad, though even on these three I could find some nice bits, like the acoustic guitars on Here Comes the Weekend. Breaking Point was featured on "Baywatch". Serves them right. Out of the four 'sensual' tracks from Justin Hayward (Bedtime Stories - The Lights Are Low - Deep - Say What You Mean Part 2), I find Deep the least embarrassing. It sure has merits (great vocals on the great middle eight, again, magnificent guitar solo) and great aura, but the moans disqualify it in my ears as does the robotic rhythm. Sorry.
Sur La Mer was, much like TOSoL, a disappointment for me. It remains a tough listen. I know that Ray was going through some difficult times, but, as someone who has to work a 40 hour week for a living, that doesn't explain his complete disappearance. Not that Graeme made much of an impact. Sigh. The production was complete plastic. The songs were ... again ... mostly facile and tuneless. I did, grudgingly, appreciate the pop of I Know You're Out There Somewhere & the interesting Deep, but the rest of the album made it obvious that the band (well, Justin & John) was running on fumes. Sorry to be a downer. I love the fact that some of you were able to find some worthwhile moments among the dross. It actually makes me want to try yet another listen.
The Moodies had completely lost me by the time this album came out, my having been a fan since the beginning. Mysticism and beauty had given way to glossiness and superficiality. I never bought the album so can't dissect it's flaws. My general feeling is that there should be a greatest hits album taken from the non core 7 albums and that would be all one would need from that output.
Yeah guys , I don't like it either. I'm like you docwebb. As big of a Moody Blues fan as I am, I never bought the album. So, I listened to the album a couple nights ago on YouTube and got the itch to stop listening before it was finished, and I tried to listen to it again last night but fell asleep about three songs in. That reinforced my opinion of the album for me. It's the law of diminishing returns for me. Why listen to what I consider is mediocre Moody Blues when so many of their other albums are so much better ? With so many music choices available and limited time I'll pass on listening to this album trying to justify why, and looking for highlights that are few and far between.
Point well taken, but please give me a bit more credit than that. The example for horrible but successful music I generally use is KC & the Sunshine band. Great bands like the Moodies are rare. In the sense they were commercially successful & created art at the same time.
I wasn’t getting at you personally or your opinions (though I don’t happen to agree with them). I was merely pointing out the fallacy of using the statement “Other side of life & Wildest dreams were big hit songs, especially the latter one” to support your opinion that “even the weakest Moodies stuff still has merit. What people are calling terrible or awful simply isin't true imo.” That’s all.
I'm guessing and I could have got it all wrong but.... I believe something of a 'power play' took place as the 80's went on with Justin and John very much 'pilot' and 'co-pilot' of The Moodies airplane... Ray and Graeme designated to be more and more 'first class passengers with lifelong tickets'...but seldom granted access up to the cockpit of the plane thus unable to have much influence on where they were heading...! Ray had both health and personal issues which cut back his contribution and over time I think he gradually lost interest as the 'hi-tech' stuff took control which his heart and flute were certainly not into Tony Visconti wanted to involve Ray but it seems Ray wasn't that responsive and Graeme too found himself er 'edged out' (sorry) I've heard that Justin and John presented SLM to Ray and Graeme as pretty much more or less a finished project ! not sure how much acoustic drums Graeme actually adds to it ? the very artificial 'robotic' sound may have been 'trendy' in the 80's but it sounds so sterile and 'souless' now - and above all so terribly 'dated' Moodies music at it's best was very emotive and came from the heart and soul (no doubt via drugs too) - hence why their attempts to be a 'R & B' / 'Blues' outfit were doomed once Denny Laine departed (and even with Denny over 1965-66 they were moving away from that anyway towards their 'own thing') to force the band into becoming a 'Trendy 80's synthpop' act seems almost a crime in retrospect - BUT back then many came to the band as a result of it and they picked up another generation of fans who are as loyal as their previous one ! so they can point to the continued chart success - which in turn ensured retrospective interest in the 'core seven' era was maintained too But you can't help feel both SLM and the next album could easily have been much stronger had they played to the group's core strengths more, so maybe a few 'Alpha Male egos' came into play here re musical direction and who sang what etc (??) I keep remembering what Patrick Moraz claimed re the song he had written which he felt was suitable for The Moodies to record - and the blunt response he says he got - which he brought up in that televised court case... I see in a recent interview Justin very firmly ruled OUT any 'reunion' idea with Ray and Mike - something John earlier had seemed to be quite up for re the 50th anniversary of DOFP etc, and his recent solo album on which both Ray and Mike appeared on one track ......(it will be ironic if the classic five piece are inducted into that Hall of Fame at long last - would all five turn up for the induction show ?) I've heard too that Justin and John are not as close as some may have thought...which might explain Justin's very firm comments about; 'There will NOT be any more new studio albums...' (?)
I have no use for this record. I do like the hit I Know You're Out There Somewhere, but not the full album version. The middle section is too long and tedious. The shortened single version was more concise and better. Too bad I cannot find it anywhere.
IKYOTS single edit is track eleven on CD Three of 'The Polydor Years' boxed set it was earlier the Polydor CD single no. 887 600-2 released in May 1988 so now you 'know it's out there somewhere'.....!
Glenn, apparently you’re wiser than I am. I’ve known since 1988 that I dislike Sur la mer, yet still, here I am (masochistically) listening to it — maybe to see why I dislike it, or to see if I was wrong. But I find this to be a truly gruelling listen. I believe it’s their worst album (although I reserve the right to reconsider that when I re-listen to Keys of the Kingdom). There are some elements here that I do like, like the chorus of “Want to Be With You” or the guitar solos on “Deep” and especially “Miracle”. “River of Endless Love” has potential. But the digital dross just kills things for me every time. From the uninspired, robotic sound of things, I doubt Moraz had much to do with it — he’s too competent. The nadir (although it’s tough to choose) could be “Love Is On The Run”, which sounds like it was created on one of those home auto-accompaniment keyboards — pick your rhythm (mambo, cha-cha), press a key and the device does the rest. “I Know You’re Out There Somewhere” may be one of the most beloved songs among “newer” Moodies fans, but I always found it so dull, being as it drones on with one of the most boring chord progressions in pop music, one the Moodies have used countless times (in this case it’s G to C). Listening to it more closely, I appreciate the arrangement a little more. And I kind of like the middle section — at least it has some atmosphere. But I still feel the cut is undermined by the production. And that goes for the entire album. As Lostchord mentioned, it’s such a relief to catch the occasional sound of acoustic guitars.. I’ll stop now before I slip over to the dark side definitively. There are better days ahead! Meanwhile, I think I'll put on some Blue Note jazz classic or something.
A pretty hilariously scathing online review, and I have to agree with most of it. The Moody Blues: In Review • Sur La Mer (1988)
Read some of the reviews of the first 7 records and had a lot of errors in identifying the instruments used in specific songs. Stopped reading.
When Sur la Mer came out I was around 9 years old and it was the first Moody Blues album I heard. Back then I used to despise guitars and my favorite tracks were the synth ones. Not yet understanding any English was a blessing too here. No More Lies, Here Comes The Weekend (I made an exception my no-guitars rule because I liked the energy) and Deep aren't too bad without context and unintelligible lyrics. So for a long time this would be my favorite Moody's album. These days I don't listen to it much as I don't want to destroy the good memories attached to it, except for IKYOTS and Breaking Point (a surprisingly dark track) which I still love as much as back then. I guess growing up with SLM and a little later TOSOL explains why I never got used to Mike Pinder's and Ray Thomas's tracks and voices.
'Your Wildest Dreams' is a great song, from Moraz's 'Tomita-esque' intro to Justin's deep "in your wiiiiiiilldest dreams..." vocal towards the end.
