Classical Corner Classical Music Corner

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 29, 2015.

  1. bruce2

    bruce2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
    Have you ever heard the 6th by Karajan on EMI from 1971? I am thinking about giving that one a try.
     
  2. bruce2

    bruce2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
    I feel your pain. I have been burned so many times by inferior remasters that I now seek out the earliest CD pressings whenever possible, even for classical recordings!
     
    kevinsinnott and George P like this.
  3. Hedin

    Hedin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    Listening to the new album by Otto A Totland - The Lost. Composer or piano music. And I think it it is worth mentioning him in this thread.
     
    petem1966 likes this.
  4. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    I watched all three. Fascinating. Amazing how much high end information is still on those 40-year-old tapes!! I'm also surprised that the masters had very little natural reverb and a lot of artificial echo was added on the original mixes. Modern echo sampling is so much better, so there's a benefit of remixing right there.

    Great stuff, though I'm not a huge fan of Bernstein's later post-CBS Masterworks recordings. He seemed to lose some of that electricity as he matured.

    dan c
     
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  5. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Smart move!
     
  6. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I have his DG recording from the 70s, but my go to is the Bernstein on DG, which many may find indulgent. I find it a powerful, devastating emotional ride.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    My experience has been the opposite specifically speaking for classical, I do look for earlier CDs with jazz and rock. I usually find when I replace 80s/90s classical CDs with remasters there is either no difference or it's a slight upgrade.

    I find mastering more miss with historical pre-tape recordings where some labels are too aggressive with noise reduction. If they are recordings to tape or digital I find the majors don't do much futzing.
     
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  8. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    I agree with you. I can hardly think of any instance where I preferred an older mastering/transfer to a newer one. The majors are indeed very reliable most of the time, especially compared to the teams handling rock releases.
     
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  9. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I have compared quite a few EMI, DG and Decca remasters to their original CD masterings and have yet to find one that I preferred to the original. Sometimes the difference is small, but in other cases I have found things like compression and noise reduction. While the compression is not nearly as bad as we see in rock/pop masterings, it is nevertheless still there. And to me, when compression is used in mastering classical recordings, it is particularly egregious. And the noise reduction, while making the recording sound more "modern," also makes it sound dull.
     
    geralmar likes this.
  10. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I find noise reduction heinous if we're talking about tape or digital recordings and I will not defend that.

    I have not noticed compression to be very common at all, what I have seen is raising the levels so the highest peaks are closer to 0 dbfs which means more of redbook's resolution is used. This will make the disc louder than an earlier CD, but it's not compressed.

    If you do computer audio ReplayGain makes it much easier to compare dynamic range since the levels will be matched closer than what most volume controls on hifi are capable of.
     
    crispi likes this.
  11. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Interesting how differently people perceive things. I did just the same and in most cases I preferred the newer release. However, a few years back I might have felt the same way you do, but my preferences have changed. I came to prefer the more solid midrange most remasters brought (thinking specifically of DG and EMI, in the case of Decca I find the transfers were pretty good from the start). Also, in the past I might have mistaken a louder volume for more compression. I’m not saying that you do, but many older CDs did not use all of the volume available to them, plus difference in EQ will alter the dynamics, so those are factors as well.

    And I can’t think of any classical recordings where I thought too much compression had been used (not even those where compression was already part of the recording, done for thechnical reasons, like early Mercury, RCA Living Stereo and mono-era DG). On the contrary, I find that most classical CDs are a bit too dynamic for comfortable listening. By the way, I’m not one of those that like to have “original” dynamics on a recording, I prefer recordings to be their own product and art form. All within reason of course, and no classical recording should use a big amount of compression — but then again, I can only think of one example, and 99,9% of classical CDs are fine when it comes to dynamics.

    Anyway, I’m not trying to convince anyone here, the least you. But I do find it interesting that people can have such diametrically opposed views. Fact is, classical listeners are the most spoiled with good quality, ever since the dawn of CD, probably due to the fact that people working in the classical industry are more musically inclined and the technical know-how is more widespread.
     
  12. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    To be clear guys, I am not talking about brickwalling, but I have seen clear evidence of compression on a number of classical remasters. And I am not OK with that (nor I am OK with the NR I mentioned earlier), so I avoid classical remasters. If others enjoy them, I am not not only OK with that, I am happy they enjoy/prefer them. Plus, it's good to know the preferences of others, so that one can take that into account when they make a recommendation.

    As long as we are all finding masterings that we enjoy, it's all good, right? :wave:
     
    crispi likes this.
  13. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I have it and will give it a spin today and give my thoughts.
     
  14. JuniorMaineGuide

    JuniorMaineGuide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boulder, Colorado
    I heard Noseda conduct for the first time recently on this CD of the Verdi Requiem with the LSO:

    [​IMG]

    It's great! Sounds more like opera to my ears than other versions I have heard - he keeps the vocal line moving and doesn't dwell too much. Very dramatic.
     
  15. bruce2

    bruce2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
    Awesome thanks! In a strange, unexpected stroke of luck and coincidence, I was browsing the CD rack in a small Goodwill store this morning and found a pristine, original Made in Germany full silver CD of the Jansons Tchaikovsky 6th! I couldn't believe it as we just discussed this very disc last night and I almost even ordered a copy. So I now have the Jansons, and also ordered the Karajan EMI recording, so I will listen to both and give my thoughts as well.
     
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  16. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Wow what a find. I never find CDs like that at goodwill. Do you have the Manfred Symphony in the series?
     
  17. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I left my old Polk Audio Monitor speakers at a Goodwill today. They still look great and they have 12 years of Classical Music break in. I trust someone will put them to good use.
     
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  18. bruce2

    bruce2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
    Yes I have the Manfred but have only listened to it 2 or 3 times. That Symphony didn't grab me right away like a few of the others, especially the 5th and 6th. I am listening to the Jansons 6th right now and you were right, it is excellent. Nice warm yet detailed sound. I usually don't find anything this good at Goodwill either. This was a true stroke of luck and coincidence! I'm still curious to hear your thoughts on the '71 EMI Karajan Tchaikovsky 6th.
     
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  19. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Agreed on Manfred.

    And if you become a fan of Jansons, I strongly suggest getting his recording of the Rachmaninoff concertos with Rudy on EMI. The Tchaikovsky 1st concerto is included as a bonus. I guess they figured people didn't already have enough recordings of that one. :angel:
     
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  20. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I listened to the Karajan Tchaikovsky 6th on EMI today. It is a fine performance but the sound is not as good as later recordings by him. Just my opinion about the sound. Like I said I think the performance is as good as any of his others.
    IMO the Jansons Manfred is one of the best on record. It is stunning.
     
  21. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Wow. The holidays may come early for someone who needs speakers!
     
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  22. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
    HenryFly likes this.
  23. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    Listened to this last night and though I enjoyed it, it is not among my favorite performances of this work. I was a bit surprised, as it comes highly recommended.
     
  24. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    BWV903 Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue, played this by Edwin Fischer and Andras Schiff. One of my favorite works from JS Bach, never fails to astound me that it was written in the early 18th century.

    [​IMG]
     
    NickySee likes this.
  25. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN

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