Petition launched to reintroduce Technics turntables (Update: The SL-1200 is Back!)*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by englishbob, May 27, 2014.

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  1. back2vinyl

    back2vinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I'd like to help but I'm not sure I can answer that. As I say it's in storage at the moment but my memory is that it drops out as a complete assembly with two RCA phono sockets in the base into which you plug the tonearm cable. There isn't any visible wiring and you would have to start disassembling the tonearm assembly if you wanted to find any bare wires, all of which would require a level of curiosity beyond what I have at the moment!

    It's very easy to pop off the base if anyone wants to have a look. There's a bazillion screws and you take them all out, remembering which screws go in which holes. The rubbery base then just prises off and underneath there's another solid base with a few more screws, which is easily taken off, and then there are just three screws holding in the arm assembly. It's not in any way challenging - it's just a bit time consuming because there are so many screws. The only thing to watch is that when you reinsert the screws for the rubbery base, you have to be careful not to strip the threads because the smaller screws go into a non-metallic material which can't cope with over-tightening. There's a very good YouTube video but it doesn't caution against over-tightening.
     
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  2. DPM

    DPM Senior Member

    Location:
    Nevada, USA
    snorker, I read a post regarding this topic by a forum member either earlier in this thread or on another thread, and he found out that Technics used the tinned copper wiring for the SL-1200G magnesium arm. He also found out that the tinned copper wire is actually the more expensive option. He went into details why that is, but I can't recall them now.

    All I can tell you is that the new arm beats the KAB-rewired arm on the SL-1200 MKII. I have both decks.
     
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  3. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Are you saying that you've actually swapped arms between tables to compare? Or you're just comparing the 1200G table to the 1200 MKII table?
     
  4. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    When corresponding with KAB about the G wire he had this to say:

    "If the G arm truly uses tin plated wire, than all the reviews on this table are faulty in my opinion.
    Tin just obscures fine treble detail. You’re the second one to say Panasonic confirms tin plating!"


    I don't know that I have enough experience to agree or disagree but I can't hear a problem with treble detail. It is hard to believe that Technics would put all that engineering into the table and then chintz on a few dollars (cents?) worth of wire. They must have a good reason for their choice.

    Edit: As I am reading the Hi-Fi News GR review it occurred to me that since the captive leads have been eliminated in the GAE/G/GR tonearms, the total amount of tin-plated wire has gone down substantially. I wonder if this is why "reviewers" aren't agreeing with KABs assessment of how this wire should sound?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  5. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    I believe KAB indicated the new arm doesn't fit the old 'table, so that's a no-go on the swap. He must mean 'table-to-'table.
     
  6. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Yeah, I know Kevin believes the tin plating is bad because he says it attenuates treble. I don't know...it sounds plenty detailed to me, but I suppose it could be even more so with different wiring.

    From my limited research the tin-plated wire is actually more expensive, so it does not appear to be a function of saving money on the wire itself. Perhaps it's a labor saving measure, as it may be easier to solder. However, longevity is supposed to be better because the tin plating makes it more corrosion resistant. If it indeed even uses the tinned copper wiring...I saw their email, but I'm not sure they knew what they were talking about (it was the US subdivision, not the Japanese plant that sent the email, though they claim to have confirmed with the factory). However, nobody's actually cracked one open to check.
     
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  7. DPM

    DPM Senior Member

    Location:
    Nevada, USA
    I have both tables. I didn't A/B them, but I didn't have to. As soon as I heard the first few minutes of music coming from the SL-1200G there were some differences/improvements that were apparent. I gave my impressions back on page 94 (two different posts) of this thread. The hours I've spent listening since those postings have only reinforced my early observations.
     
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  8. wgb113

    wgb113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chester County, PA
    The treble sounds perfectly fine to me and I'm hearing zero resonance in the tonearm. Been enjoying some BFRSD pick ups since the weekend and I'm not sure I could ever go back to a belt-drive.
     
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  9. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I've made two tweaks to my 1200G. In reference to the "300 Hz tonearm ring" I took a hint from KAB's tonearm rubber liner and put something similar on the outside of my tonearm. I put it outside since I would have had to pull the tonearm wire otherwise. I used latex tubing that is 3/8" ID and 1/16" thick. It weighs about 3 1/4 grams and seems to effectively deaden any arm vibration. It's a cleaner look than the black silicone tape that I tried although the "flesh tone" color is a bit weird.

    The second tweak is that I applied a ring of 1 mm thick cork to the outer edge of my platter, under the rubber mat. The idea of this is that when I push down and clamp my Rega Michell record clamp it tends to ensure contact between the lp and mat. Some lps are slightly convex and with them convex up on the platter, they don't make good contact and hence might not damp vibration effectively. By raising the outer platter edge, the lp is forced into a slight convex up configuration and hopefully gives good mat contact.

    I am getting better detail out of my G compared to my KAB modded MK2, with or without these tweaks.
     
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  10. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    The 1200gr is my 2nd table, my precious and first foray was a uturn. At minimum I could never return to a belt that requires you to manually pull the belt off to change speeds. My 45 purchases shot up dramatically with the technics :) enjoying BFRSD myself and the table tonearm motor suspension whatever it all just works and sounds so good together.
     
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  11. Tiger-Eyes

    Tiger-Eyes New Member

    Location:
    St. Elsewhere
    You guys are really taking this too far. My main compliant, if it was really any. Was that Technics changed the diameter of the spindle. The orignal had a slightly thicker spindle. So all your records would become accustomed to this girth making the plastc center-hole a bit larger. Now if you bought a new SL-1200 around the turn of the century. Suddenly your records would sit slightly loose on your table. A bit annoying if you were a 'scratcher'. 300Hz hum from tonearm? Never noticed such a thing fom any MK2.
     
  12. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
  13. MadCajun

    MadCajun Forum Resident

    That's where I picked up mine. Robert is very nice to deal with and shipping was extremely fast.
     
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  14. MikeJedi

    MikeJedi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    is there a difference between the sl1200GR and the 1210GR other than the colors? if anyone knows? thanks :)
     
  15. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    I’ve read that the 1210 won’t be made available in the US. I don’t think there are any differences between the products other than the color.
     
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  16. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Same dealer that I got mine. I concur, Robert was awesome to deal with.
     
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  17. JCOehler

    JCOehler Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Galen Carol also has the G & GR in stock, is a great guy to work with and offers free shipping plus a cash discount.

    Galen Carol Audio
     
  18. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    everyone keeps saying the tonearm is not so good. what exactly is wrong with the tonearm and what effect does it have on the sound?
     
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  19. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Won't hear that from me. The tonearm on my GR is silky smooth, no chatter whatsoever, and has tracked everything I've thrown at it perfectly, nicely mated to an ortofon 2m blue.
     
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  20. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    The G tonearm? I don't think anyone is saying it's not good. There seem to be some resonances identified in it. However, I don't believe any mechanical device can be free from some resonance. Depending on how severe and what frequency(s) it may cause sound coloration. Damping is a possible mitigation solution.

    There is also talk about the internal tonearm wiring being tin-plated copper. I think only KAB has said this is bad.

    Reviews have been consistently good. I don't have a complaint with my G. The bearings seem much better than the MK2 -- which were excellent.
     
  21. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    No one is hearing these tonearm resonances. They read it, it becomes a problem to fix, they fix it and all is well again. My synopsis of this phenomenon.
     
  22. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Well, not while playing music but while testing ... WOW! I'm a believer that anything that can be fixed ought to be once a certain level of equipment is reached. It's hard so say when various "inaudible" issues add up and become sound coloration.
     
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  23. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    I’ve not identified any audible resonance issues testing with the Ultimate AP test record. I really appreciate how easy it is to swap cartridges and make adjustments to the tonearm.
     
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  24. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Fluid damper for GR almost ready! From KAB twitter:

    Production has begun on the fluid damper for the new 1200's. Called the KAB TD-1000. Parts should be available soon.

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    This is good news. I liked the way my MK2 tracked warps with the fluid damping and I'm looking forward to putting it on my G.
     
    recstar24 likes this.
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