The Rolling Stones On Air In The Sixties Book and Album

I think they use the cheapest postage, I got Queen News of The World Picture Disc yesterday , think it took three weeks ;(

 

Exactly. And they will report you to the gorts too, for "insulting" them and ruining their "fun". (Snowflakes.)

 

I took "Beave's" suggestion and ordered the 2 LP set rather than the CD. Presentation is very nice and I'm glad I got the 12"x12" artwork by buying the LP set.

The sound on the old CD collection "Beat! Beat! Beat! at the Beeb" is more "authentic sounding" to my ears and more enjoyable to listen to over and over. I find that the "Electronically Enhanced For Stereophonic Reproduction" processing on the new LP set very exhausting to listen to.

All-in-all, I'm glad I got the 2 LP set (keeps my collection complete), but listening to it ("Route 66" and "Walking The Dog" are particularly grating) is something I probably won't do. I'd rather stick "Beat! Beat! Beat!" on and enjoy a complete non-electronically-enhanced presentation of the BBC stuff

 

As our host has stated many times, this is a MUSIC forum, although you are certainly in your right to discuss sound quality. Just don't expect everyone here to have the same priorities/hang-ups. As for how this forum used to be, I have been here for 12 years, and it has pretty much been the same as it is now, maybe with more people, and the troll accounts had different names back then.

 

Only 8 years a member, but I think things have changed. Now everything "sounds great", unless of course it's mono in which case it's "punchy".

 

The punchy mono thing has been going on forever too. Do a simple search for threads that say "why should I like mono when I have two ears?"

 

Apparently, that glitch in The Last Time is present on the tape (or whatever) BBC has in hands. It was aired that way on 2011 BBC Radio 6 Music broadcast and on BBC 2, November 15, 2012

 

I used to post on the old DCC forum, and I've been here since this forum started in 2002. The DCC forum was designed to discuss DCC releases and suggest things people would like to see reissued on DCC, and from there discussion invariably broadened to "what's the best-sounding version of this album that's not available on DCC?" When DCC folded, Steve Hoffman started this board to replace the DCC forum, and when it began this essentially was an audiophile forum, with the lion's share of the discussion being about which CDs sounded good or bad. From there of course the discussion has broadened considerably.

In the earlier days of the forum people were receptive to discussion about quality control, tape sources and mastering choices and errors. If something was sourced from an inferior tape, or noise reduction was used, people wanted to know. I don't recall anyone ever becoming defensive if a disc they liked was criticized, or anyone ever suggesting that we should stop talking about mastering flaws and just be thankful the item was released at all. Here for example is a thread about the Who's Live at Leeds Deluxe Edition that was released in the early 00's. You'll notice some parallels to this thread... people criticizing the digital processing applied to the material, people suggesting the bootleg sounds much better. What you don't see is people complaining about the negative tone of the discussion, or saying they do not care if the boot might be better, or that we should just be thankful for what we have. That is a notable difference here now.

It's true that back then membership was much smaller so there was more of a shared aesthetic. People came here because they liked Hoffman's work, so that meant there was general agreement that his approach to mastering was good, and things eschewed by Hoffman (like excessively bright EQ or NR) were not good. I don't begrudge anyone the right to have a differing opinion or a different aesthetic. It's only the seeming desire to stifle critical or negative QC discussion that is disappointing to me.

 

Don't say that!!! It will only make the naysayers have lesser ammunition to shoot at, against the official product. ;-)

 

But this time it can be found on unofficial relatively new fan-made recording!

 

I'm listening to the Georgie Fame Camden Theatre recordings, I think from the same date as The Rolling Stones session there. The sound balance could not be more different. My preference is for the warm sound of the Georgie Fame - the last track from their session is the best that I have ever heard Long John Baldry.

Does anybody know for certain the actual sources used both sessions?

 

It is not present on original 1965 BBC transcription disc

 

I understand where you coming from, but I disagree that people are stifling people who are critical of the product from a SQ point of view. I think they do react to over-the-top negativity. I have not heard this product, so I can't comment how it sounds to me, but a lot of people are buying it because they have never heard bootlegs and have no desire to. For them, your comparison is not relevant.

On an unrelated note, I assume that the BBC wiped the original tapes in some cases, and are using "re-acquired" bootlegged copies as their original masters - that might be why they sound identical.

 

Based on what Ben said earlier, tape sources only exist for the 1964 live stereo broadcast, the three 1963 tracks, and 2120 South Michigan Avenue and Not Fade Away. Everything else is available only in transcription disc form or off-air recording. But what's been found is that at least some of the stuff sourced from transcription discs on this new release digitally syncs with old bootlegs, which means that rather than going back to the original transcription discs and doing fresh needle drops, they (in some cases at least) simply used the needle drops done by bootleggers years ago.

 

I just spent an hour plus comparing On Air, the A** Blaster release, and my reference source, DAC-130, Beat Beat Beat at the Beep (not to be confused with Beat Beat Beat at the Beeb, which is older and far inferior). My preference is Beat Beat Beat at the Beep. The A** Blaster folks used some(?) different sources for the rebroadcast material (e.g., the intro to the Camden Theater stereo broadcast is different), and copied DAC for the original '60s broadcasts. The quality is nearly identical throughout between those two with the exception of "Cry to Me" where DAC has better bass.

Regarding On Air, I understand that the Stones or the record company wanted to polish the songs, modernize them, whatever, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I prefer the "natural" sound of the boots, instead of trying to polish a turd. A shame, I was hoping to like this better. Hope it sells enough for there to be more archival releases in the future.

 

You stated above that there aren't any tapes. Are you certain that the BBC even have the original transcription discs? I seem to remember several BBC transcription discs ending up for sale in Record Collector magazine.

 

I erroneously stated earlier in the thread that there weren't any tapes, and someone corrected me shortly thereafter and I acknowledged my mistake. There are tape sources for the nine songs mentioned in my last post (immediately above) wherein I was quoting Ben.

There were multiple copies of the transcription discs made for each show. I don't know how accurate wiki is in this case, but it says typically 100 copies of each disc were pressed. We can assume that's somewhere in the ballpark. So yes, some of those discs are out there on the collector's market for sale, which is how they ended up in the hands of bootleggers. I do not know if the BBC retains any transcription discs in their archives, or if the Stones themselves have any. But if not, they could have obtained them in the same way the bootleggers did. The fact that at least some of the tracks on the new release are bootleg sourced suggests that they were not willing to go to the time and effort to find all the transcription discs and do their own needle drops.

 

It seems that the Transcription disc transfers used for the On Air set would have come from the BBC, especially seeing as the error on The Last Time was previously broadcast on the BBC a few years back.

The tracks where On Air uses bootleg sources (which him assuming is nearly all of the off-air stuff as well) are the three 1963 tracks and 2120 Michigan Ave.

When it comes to the better sounding material, nearly all the bootlegs out there are derived from one source, Swingin Pig’s “Got Satisfaction if you want it!”, which itself is sourced from a digital or analog dub of the 1985 BBC radio programme “The Stones At The Beeb” (this is proven by the fact that the abrupt endings on the 1963 tracks match where the presenter talks over the fade, and the edit to the intro of the Camden theatre tracks)

This is also why two of the tracks have always run slow on boots, as they weren’t part of the show and were instead taken from off speed dubs of worn Transcription discs.

Parts of disc 1 of the Ass Blaster set are also derived from the Swingin Pig where no Transcription disc sources exist, but all of the 1965 tracks are direct from new disc transfers and are a big improvement over all the previous boots.

 

I just got my copy of On Air last night. I found it to be a very processed sounding set with a lot of the life sucked out of what are mostly excellent performances. The sound of the boots vary from track to track but are at least much more natural sounding. I'm glad I just got the CDs.

 

I got this response this morning (still no package):


Thank you for your message.
We have checked the system and can confirm that your order was shipped
on 1st December and should arrive with you shortly, if it has not
already done so.
For orders sent to USA by standard delivery we expect an approximate
delivery time of 7-14 days.
As you have chosen ‘standard’ shipping, as opposed to ‘courier’
shipping, the delivery isn’t tracked.
Please see our help & support section for further information on
shipping times.
If you still haven’t received your order by 20 days after the stated
shipping date, contact us and we’ll advise further.
Thank you for shopping with us and we hope your order arrives soon.

 

Back in 1987, Westwood One produced a 15 LP set for radio stations called The 60's at the Beeb. I used to own it. Pretty sure they later released it on CD for radio stations but I never got that so I don't know the details. Possibly the rebroadcast material on On Air comes from the Westwood One source and that's why it digitally syncs with The Swingin' Pig's boot which used the same Westwood One source.

 

I have a rip of those Westwood One 'The 60's at the Beeb'. The Last Time is w/o glitch. This is just another brick in the wall

 

It’s a shame no-one has ripped those LPs straight to digital, all that is circulating is a copy someone dubbed to cassette. Ugh.

 

That’s good to know, thanks. If that’s what the BBC have and it was aired that way on BBC radio, that’s what they had to work with so it can’t be classed as a glitch surely.

 

They could easily haven taken a corrected earlier version from a bootleg or public domain release.