Stones v. Beatles breakup?

basically its a nostalgia act, just like Macca and all the others, but i for one feel pleased to see the show keep rolling on for as long as ..

 

But I see (and hear) the Rolling Stones blues based arena rock as far less timebound than McCartney's pop rock. Just as the band can drop a blues classic into any of their records or setlists without sounding out of place, their own catalog has become a songbook onto itself.

 

The first half of 1968 he was fine. He plays on 8 out 10 tracks on Beggar's Banquet as well as JJF and Child of the Moon which were recorded in the spring of 1968. He was busted on drug charges a second time (set up by the same narcs who set up Jagger, Richards, Lennon and McCarthy) at the end of May 1968, faced a very humiliating public trial and his drug use exploded. By the end of 1968 he was a shell. At the beginning of 1968 he was Brian. Go look at photos from the beginning and end of 1968 and compare. He was according to two different psychologists who interviewed him during the trial in a "fragile" mental state and near suicide. The situation got worse and worse until June 1969. He became paranoid and would answer phone calls saying "I don't have drugs!" and hang up. He became paranoid the cops were watching him (probably were). His mental state so rapidly declined throughout 1968 that the Judge took mercy and didn't give him any real sentence, just a stern warning. He had a yearlong freefall from around June 1968 to June 1969. It wasn't sudden - just a yearlong, slow prolonged agonizing decline. He actually wasn't fired, believe it or not. More like a mutual agreement that it was best for both parties. He had already expressed a desire to quit during a session in May 1969 and had actually wanted to quit in 1967 but was persuaded to stay by Mick. The final issue came down to him not wanting to tour. Basically what happened was as he collapsed they were trying to figure out what to do. Even as late as May 21st 1969, he still was a member - the Stones did a whole new photoshoot and Brian is front and center in most of those photos; You don't do a photoshoot with a guy you're about to fire. They had brought Ry Cooder in on those spring 1969 sessions and then Mick Taylor on May 30th. Brian also played on some of those sessions and shows up on two songs on Let it Bleed.

Mick and Keith (with Charlie in tow) approached Brian at his home early June and basically they said, "Look, we need to tour. We've been playing with Mick Taylor and other people and we need to know exactly what you want here" basically. Basically they came to a mutual understanding that it was best that he leave the band, and they came to an agreement that he could put out a statement saying whatever he wanted and they would go along with it. He was also offered a lifelong pension of 500,000 pounds a year, and an option to return if he wanted. The main issue wasn't drugs, or even his functionality (although both were indeed issues); the separation came down to him not wanting to tour in 1969. Him not wanting to tour pissed Mick right off.

 

and Macca's isn't ??

 

So great and so timeless. Two 70 year old guys hanging out playing some old country blues. The song sounds like it could have been written around the turn of the century.

 

and more evidence Mick and Macca are cut from the same cloth !!!

 

I’ve seen both acts in the last couple of months and they are very different shows. McCartney’s show has much more of a feel of looking back over the past. The show constantly and deliberately invokes memories - the photo montage that precedes the show, the stories of old times, the tributes to John and George, etc - but the music is so good, and the performance so compelling that to refer to it as a “nostalgia act” doesn’t do it justice. True, the crowd is primarily older fans, but with many multi-generational groups of fans sharing the experience with their children or grandchildren. It’s really a wonderful show.

The Stones show is very different - no old pictures, no stories, no mention of fallen mates, no emotional singalongs. In fact, on this night no ballads at all except for Keith’s gentle “Slipping Away” from the Bridges to Babylon album. It’s just a straightforward two-hour lineup of loud rock and roll. The crowd has many first generation fans (although first generation could mean fans who started with Some Girls), but is definitely younger than Paul's show, with fewer families, and many groups of young guys and many younger couples, especially on the general admission floor. While most of the songs come from 1981’s Tattoo You and before, and even the two songs from their new album are pre-1950, it doesn’t feel like an exercise in nostalgia. It’s more like the crowds that went to see guys like Bo Diddley, Muddy Waters or even Clapton in their later years - you’re weren’t there to relive past memories - just to see a great rock artist perform.

 

Indeed, Ron- once the Stones finally go, we will not see the likes of them ever again. We take The Rolling Stones for granted at this point because they've never really gone away- they're not only a musical institution at this point but a pop culture one as well.
And before anybody says "What about McCartney?" sure, McCartney's never gone away, either, but he's not The Beatles, is he? The Beatles haven't existed for almost fifty years. The Stones have always been the Stones, and that's why we love 'em!

 

Off-toopic, and I apologize, but in 1963 at least, Brian Jones seems to have been very "business-like" when it comes to music and seems to have been very interested in nurturing the band's success. He strikes me as a very smart young man (consider he was only 23):

 

Compare those confident, self-assured, if a bit arrogant letters above from 1963 to these (sent to Linda Keith) in 1968:
"I'm so sorry that a tragic thing seems to have severed our relationship. Let me please say darling that I'm deeply aware of your problems. Please do everything you can to sort out everything. I'm sure you can shake off the devils that haunt you. That you could so often forget your troubles to help me so lovingly fills me with such deep emotion. I longed to help you Linda -- really I did, but a kind of self-preservation instinct erected a barrier every time the longing to help arose in me. This produced the conflicts inside me which resulted in violence, insults, and other hurts I caused you."

" Dearest Darling Linda,
I'm presently very smashed...,I have to tell you, we (Ossie Clark and I) were talking about people who should do the Eamon Andrews show and after suggesting a few really groovy people to **** Eamon's head up, Ossie suggested "How about Linda Keith to really floor him" Wow! How people dig you... I'm getting two houses together Linda, a good scene, one in town + one in the country - please be with me, I'm so lonely by myself. I need you so badly + I love you so much, please understand what ****ed us up before, a terrible combination of events. Please let's start again.
PLEASE MARRY ME. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.
All My love, Brian"

These were from '68. He was arrested in the last days of May 1968 and faced a prolonged prison sentence. He was humiliated publicly at the trial. Psychiatric interview detailing his suicidal feelings were released publicly. And finally, here, he broke up with Linda Keith the same year. The second half of 1968 broke him. You can see it in these letters.

 

Not to be nitpicky but Steel Wheels. That tune is one of many reasons that's one of my favorite Stones albums.

 

Oops. Well, I always get it mixed up with “Thru and Thru”, which now that I think about it, isn’t on Bridges either. Oh well. . .

 

If you're going to change the Stones timeline then why not change the Beatles also? Would it change your opinion if they both broke up in 1972 and The Beatles put out this as their last album:

All Things Must Pass

1. It Don't Come Easy
2. That Would Be Something
3. Let It Down
4. Cold Turkey
5. Junk
6. Isn't It A Pity

7. Maybe I'm Amazed
8. Gimme Some Truth
9. Apple Scruffs
10. Every Night
11. Working Class Hero
12. All Things Must pass
13. Instant Karma

I always felt The Beatles had one more great album in them after Abbey Road. To me this is a big album and would compare to Sticky Fingers & Exile because of Harrison's big songs on one end and Lennon's brutal songs on the other. Or what if they both broke up after Goat's Head Soup & a Band On The Run album in 1973 or 74? I wrote my own version of The Beatles in the 70's. It's a free download if anyone is interested.

Band On The Run.pdf (51.77MB) - SendSpace.com

 

As much as I love exile and fingers (both in my top 15 albums) abbey road as a work of art is miles ahead.

 

I think this gets it right. Abbey Road, much like Pepper before it, sounds like a work of art. The Stones albums don’t sound that ambitious. They sound like collections of blues rock numbers, and at the time of Exile and Sticky Fingers, the band was as good as any blues rock band ever, so the albums are highly regarded.

 

^ well said.

 

Maybe so but as for preference the Stones are miles ahead.

 

For your preference???

 

Yes.

 

Sticky Fingers doesn't sound ambitious?

 

Yes it does.

Not quite to the work of art that abbey road is though.

 

Side two of SF shoulda had a fun blues medley.

 

Arty is not always better. I'll take a garage band over some prog stuff about half the time if not more than that. It's rock 'n' roll.

 

I totally agree with this.

Most prog bores moi, I love garage, I love songs.

My point though is you can arty without the wankery, abbey road is that, as is elements of sticky finger (can't ya hear me knocking and moonlight mile)

It's just abbey road has the edge. IMHO of course.

 

beetles broke up.;.stones never did...beatles ended it...stoned haven't....both groups made it and still make it....WORTHWHILE......ALL the albums and singles that made/make our lives better.......only 1 stone is dead yet...(wait..ian stewart is gone right?..)....2 beetles are dead.....there will be a time..when they are all gone.....and we (hopefully) will be alive to remember..and play the records!!!..so....what was the thread again? something about a break up....stones never broke up.... beatles just lived and went where they wanted to...we thought of it as some break-up....as fans...but....they went flying.........so...actually..no break-ups...............just more forward-ness.......and living.......