Thanks. Some Sony related labels ended up with later manufactures with the EQ properly added. (pre-remaster) Toto-IV is a good example.
According to matrix it's much later pressing, probably with SID codes too? That means they noticed the problem and de-emphasised the master, or maybe it's a different master altogether? To compare we can post down sound values (that's not proper name, isn't it? I forgot the right one) from rip log For my CD they are: 87.6/100.0/99.0/84.7/97.6/94.9/100.0/94.9/98.8 (as ripped, that means with emphasis)
Just ran my CD through EAC & they are the same numbers as yours. FWIW here are the EAC #s for my CD (Epic EK 39593 / DIDP 020149 03 2A 03) 87.6 / 100.0 / 99.0 / 84.7 / 97.6 / 94.9 / 100.0 / 94.9 / 98.8
That means it's exactly the same mastering. Either it's properly flagged, or it's same case as in mine and maybe you just didn't noticed? Have you tried checking for flags with CUE ripper?
EAC showed no pre-emphasis. I have many, many CDs with pre-emphasis & this one does not sound like it has it.
For Wheels Are Turnin, Japan 32 8-62 No pre located in SUB or TOC, levels are somewhat different than the old US mastering. EQ is about the same, volume is somewhat lower- DR12 -3.02 dB -16.55 dB 4:13 01-I Do' Wanna Know DR13 -1.44 dB -16.99 dB 3:21 02-One Lonely Night DR13 -2.73 dB -17.54 dB 5:02 03-Thru The Window DR13 -2.72 dB -17.20 dB 3:41 04-Rock 'N Roll Star DR13 -1.67 dB -16.85 dB 4:58 05-Live Every Moment DR12 -2.82 dB -17.26 dB 4:55 06-Can't Fight This Feeling DR13 -0.51 dB -15.56 dB 4:27 07-Gotta Feel More DR13 -2.05 dB -16.36 dB 2:59 08-Break His Spell DR13 -0.97 dB -16.63 dB 5:51 09-Wheels Are Turnin'
For "Wheels Are Turning" (Epic EK 39593 / DIDP 020149 03 2A 03) DR Peak RMS Filename ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR13 -0.50 dB -14.35 dB REO Speedwagon - Break His Spell.mp3 DR12 -0.79 dB -15.17 dB REO Speedwagon - Can't Fight This Feeling.mp3 DR12 over -13.00 dB REO Speedwagon - Gotta Feel More.mp3 DR12 -1.20 dB -14.64 dB REO Speedwagon - I Do' Wanna Know.mp3 DR12 -0.17 dB -14.24 dB REO Speedwagon - Live Every Moment.mp3 DR13 over -14.60 dB REO Speedwagon - One Lonely Night.mp3 DR12 -1.01 dB -14.95 dB REO Speedwagon - Rock 'N Roll Star.mp3 DR13 -0.57 dB -15.37 dB REO Speedwagon - Thru The Window.mp3 DR13 -0.07 dB -14.10 dB REO Speedwagon - Wheels Are Turnin'.mp3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of files: 9 Official DR value: DR12
Has anyone checked whether Steely Dan Aja, early CBS/Sony Records Japan for U.S. CD pressing (the matrix would be something like "DIDX-55 21A1" with Japan written at around 3 o'clock position and the plastic hub would have "csr compact disc" embossed) has pre-emphasis. If it does, it would explain the difference between that CD and an early JVC Japan for U.S. CD.
If it had pre-emphasis, the peak numbers would not match. Or, put another way, if they had the same EAC (they do) and one had pre-emphasis, then they couldn't sound the same.
two more CDs arrived with pre-emphasis, both are flagged only in subcode Kikuchi Momoko - Ocean Side (VAP 80003-35, 1984, matrix VAP-80003 1A4-53, so pressed in 1985) Naoko Kawai - Summer Delicacy (Denon 35C31-7187, 1984, matrix C-31-7187 2A1-47)
Just a heads up that my new Pioneer BDP-80FD does not pass pre-emphasis over its SPDIF output, as verified with my Meridian 518 and Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations 38DC 35. It is flagged via my old transport using the same method. I don't know if it will flag TOC ones versus Sub ones or vice-Versa bus I suspect it won't pass the flag with either kind of disc
Yet more Santana, carried forward to: 2009 Original Album Classics [SONY Columbia 88697445562]: Inner Secrets Marathon Zebop! Shangó Freedom is the only album in this set that does not have pre-emphasis. 2010 Original Album Classics [SONY Columbia 88697626062]: The Swing Of Delight 2011 Original Album Classics [SONY Columbia 88697945712]: Beyond Appearances
Did you use your Oppo for playback? If so and the EQ was properly added the flag would be in the TOC as Oppo's can't add if they are located in the SUB I'm on a PC so I use DBpoweramp or EAC for TOC location and an old Beta EAC for SUBQ
I'm listening to rips from the CDs (flacs streamed to Squeezebox) - no de-emphasis implemented in playback so pre-emphasis is obvious whenever present. I use SoX to perform the de-emphasis when I find a disc with pre-emphasis. I did try the Zebop! Japan for Europe disc in my Panasonic DVD-A350 and was surprised to hear it play back without de-emphasis so possibly in the subcode for that one, although if that is the case then I am surprised that old player doesn't cope with it. Will try to figure out how they're flagged...
Does the Meridian display what sample rate it is receiving? Do you know what sample rate the Pioneer BDP-80FD is outputting over the SPDIF output? I have a Pioneer BDP-80FD for the SACD ripping feature, I haven't tried using it as a transport. The setup menu for the Pioneer leads me to believe that the digital output will only support 48, 96, or 192 sampling rates. It had no options that mentioned 44.1 or multiples of 44.1 sampling rates. Which makes me think CDs will get resampled to 48 or a multiple of 48 kHz over the digital output. If the Pioneer is resampling what gets sent over the SPDIF output, that could explain why the pre-emphasis flag bit is getting clobbered. My DAC is a Schiit Gungnir. It doesn't display the sampling rate it is receiving. So checking the sampling rate the Pioneer is outputting would be kinda difficult for me.
It's so strange to see that all of these Santana albums have PE. If those Zebop and Inner Secrets CD's are the same as the standard US issues, then that's the first I'm hearing of them containing PE. This makes me wonder if the original CD's for Caravanserai through Festival have PE as well.
These Original Album Classics sets that have some discs with pre-emphasis are European - I know that the regular US Caravanserai is not the same mastering as the original Japan for Europe disc originally available here (no pre-emphasis in this case, it sounds like a different tape source was used - the Japan for Europe CDCBS 65299 sounds much better than the regular US disc CK 31610) so I wonder if perhaps other original European Columbia Santana CDs are different than their US counterparts? In particular, it seems possible that de-emphasis was not applied to the audio data when the European discs were sourced from the original digital masters that had pre-emphasis (not all) and that no flags were set.
I checked my old US Inner Secrets and Zebop CD's and their DR and peak numbers match the box set. Guess this means they were identical worldwide. Shango did not match, but my copy is a slightly newer "Now Made in U.S.A." version which doesn't contain PE. With Swing of Delight, it seems easy to tell that PE was used given the extremely high DR numbers. I'll check out my original CDs for Amigos, Festival, and Havana Moon tonight to see if they somehow have PE as well.
I checked all the CDs from my European Original Album Classics w/ dBpoweramp & the only CD showing PE was Shangó. Inner Secrets does not sound like it has PE (to me) - Marathon & Zebop! are both bright albums by nature, so it's harder to tell. It is very possible that the flags are hidden, although, I don't have the ability to check.
Try the ones I've listed with de-emphasis applied - all sound much more balanced. I don't think it's simply down to an EQ choice in mastering - de-emphasis should make a regular master sound really dead but it sounds to me like it corrects the discs I've listed to a well balanced presentation.
I've just checked "Inner Secrets", "Marathon" and "Zebop!" from the "Original Albums Collection", they do NOT have Pre-Emphasis. My computer rips sound just like the original CDs.
I just listened to Marathon & Zebop! ("All I Ever Wanted" & "Winning") with pre-emphasis applied & they both sound too muffled compared to the files processed w/o pre-emphasis. I have many, many CDs with pre-emphasis & to me, these do not sound like they have it. (I used Sennheiser HD-600 headphones & Mac w/ AIFF files to compare.)
