Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MLutthans, Nov 10, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I did. It's ridiculous to think that you could destroy the largest ships in the galaxy just by ramming them with a smaller ship. Why didn't they do that to the Death Star at the Battle of Endor, for starters? However, if your dialog establishes that this pretty much never works due to timing issues . . . and that it really only worked this time because Leia pulled some Force magic, it becomes a lot more credible.

    I like TLJ, but it's sloppy stuff like this that keeps the film from rising to the level of Empire. Good ideas, mixed execution. And it could have been easily fixed, which makes it more frustrating.
     
  2. dprokopy

    dprokopy Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    Ramming it at light speed. Basically like a bullet through an apple. Plus, her ship seems to have fractured into several pieces that did their own light-speed damage as well.

    And it didn't "destroy" the ship - it was still mostly intact, and a good number of people survived. But it was certainly enough damage to disable it and allow the rest of the Resistance fleet to escape.
     
  3. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    "It is protected by an energy shield which is generated on the nearby forest moon of Endor. "

    [​IMG]

    "How could they be jamming us if they don't know... that we're coming... Break off the attack, the shield is still up. Pull up! All craft pull up!"

    [​IMG]

    "That blast came from the Death Star! That thing's operational!"

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  4. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    The Onion reviews The Last Jedi.

     
    medium Rob and bferr1 like this.
  5. John Hatter

    John Hatter Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    I enjoyed it very much. I don’t understand why the big cannon used to blow the big door, has to be lowered to the floor and dragged by slow moving giraffe type robots. With all the technology surely this wouldnt be necessary. Compared to all the rest of the super fast travel options, it was painfully slow. I know it’s just a film :)
     
  6. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    It didn't "destroy" the ship only because it was ginormous - it still cut it in half and cleaved out a huge chunk. And it's ridiculous because if this could actually work in-universe, the Rebels would have used this against the Empire's fleet and Endor and crippled every Star Destroyer there. They were being blasted by the Death Star anyhow...

    And why exactly would that energy shield stop a kamikaze run by a ship doing hyperspeed?

    Like I said, a couple of simple lines of dialog could have established:

    1) This seldom works, so nobody tries it and
    2) Leia's Force mojo had something to with its (and Poe's) unrealistic success

    This would have not only eliminated a big continuity problem, it would have also added to the character interactions and the plot.

    I think TLJ is loaded with good ideas, but the execution is a mixed bag. I enjoyed the film, but it's a mess and with just a few tweaks could have been much better. Like, Empire better.
     
  7. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Gotta say... Very well thought out. I don't think it's actually canon...But I think I'm adopting this as mine. :)


    I think this sums up my feelings. This movie just missed greatness in many places. Retool a few things, add a few lines of dialogue here, cut a small scene there and maybe reorder some scenes, and I do think it would easily be the third best movie of the series. As is I'd have to rank it 5th, maybe 4th.

    I still give Rian Johnson credit for trying something different and not doing the easy thing and coddle the hardcore fandom. He could have easily just did a straight cut and paste of Empire, make Rey a Skywalker and have Luke be Mr. Jedi Gary Stu. It probably would have made 300-500 mill more than the movie we got, and I'm sure the hatred would be slightly more muted and gave everyone else nostalgic empty calories, but it wouldn't have been a better movie.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
    sunspot42, bferr1 and SimonSaysCake like this.
  8. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Thanks. I've been giving this **** WAY too much thought lately. Beats thinking about politics! :righton:
     
    ianuaditis and David Campbell like this.
  9. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I thought you were asking why the Rebels didn't use it against the Death Star, but I see now you meant against the Imperial fleet. I suppose a big difference with ROTJ is the crew complement on the cruiser in TLJ, which was just one person, versus the hundreds or thousands on a Rebel ship. I also suppose the Rebels weren't that desperate yet and still had hope that Han would come through on Endor.
     
    Encuentro likes this.
  10. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    The Rebels weren't that desperate yet? The Death Star was literally vaporizing their capital ships. It was the very definition of "nothing left to lose".
     
  11. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I guess I'm confused by what you're suggesting. Would the Holdo maneuver be used against the Imperial fleet? Because if so, then you'd still have the Death Star picking off remaining Rebel ships. Are you suggesting the Holdo maneuver be used against the Death Star itself? Because I'm not sure that would have the kind of dramatic impact that we saw in TLJ given the difference in scale between the Death Star and the Rebel ship jumping to lightspeed. So, how exactly do you think the Holdo trick could have been used at Endor?
     
    ianuaditis likes this.
  12. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Another way to put it would be this.
    In The Last Jedi it was 1 person making a sacrifice to buy the rest of them time to reach the planet.
    In Return of the Jedi they would be sacrificing a whole crew of rebels in order to take down, 1 or 2 ships? If I recall the movie some of the x-wings did a bit of a kamikaze move as they were going down.
     
    Encuentro and bferr1 like this.
  13. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Since the ships were being vaporized anyhow, they could be used to take out far larger Imperial Star Destroyers. They could also target the Death Star with their larger ships - nothing to lose.

    This is why I found the whole hyperspace suicide crash utterly ridiculous - if that really worked, we'd have seen it used before already.

    It's another example of how modern filmmakers do "moments", but absolutely suck at forging internally-coherent plots. (They're also really good at writing themselves into a corner and then doing something ridiculous to get out of it.)
     
    David Campbell likes this.
  14. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Except everybody on both sides would be dead, including Luke Skywalker on the Death Star. But why stop there? While we're at it, the Death Star could've taken out Endor, just to make sure no one lived. That's some terrific ending to the trilogy there, with everyone dead. And people thought TLJ was divisive!
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
    Plan9, David Campbell and CraigBic like this.
  15. CraigBic

    CraigBic Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Lando: Yes, I said closer, get as close as you can and engage those star destroyers at point blank range.
    Akbar: At that close range we won't last long against those star destroyers
    Lando: We'll last longer than we will against that death star and we might just take a few of them with us.

    Maybe they didn't start light speeding their way through the other ships but it's a similar principle.
     
    bferr1 likes this.
  16. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Well, would have made for a depressing flick, but since TLJ made it look like hyperspace ramming is about as easy as picking your nose, it's inexplicable we haven't seen the Rebellion or the Resistance use it before, given the dire circumstances they've found themselves in. Heck, dump the crew onto transports and ram your cruiser into a Super Star Destroyer. BAM! The only ones taking casualties are the big Imperial / New Order ships. And it seems to only take a small Rebel cruiser to wipe out a massive Imperial ship. That's a great trade!

    Like I said, sloppy writing. You could easily get around this with 10 seconds of dialog in TLJ. Johnson didn't even try.
     
    David Campbell likes this.
  17. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Judicious use of exposition is a matter of taste, I guess-- not enough and the audience's suspension of disbelief is, well, suspended; too much, and it drags on the movie's pacing like a boat anchor, as it did in Episode I. In the case of the Holdo kamikaze scene, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. You feel the extra exposition is necessary; I feel that exposition has its time and place and in this case might have slowed the momentum of that sequence.
    To be fair, how do you know that he "didn't even try" exposition in that moment? Maybe he did but it got cut because of pacing issues. We'd need to see every draft of the script to verify one way or another.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  18. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    It's funny looking back a few weeks ago and noticed I'm ranking TLJ a bit lower now than then. I ranked it third then. Now I've got it 4th or 5 the.

    Anyhow...I still like it and think it's decent.
     
    sunspot42 and bferr1 like this.
  19. malcolm reynolds

    malcolm reynolds Handsome, Humble, Genius

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    After seeing TLJ a few more times my rankings stands as below.

    Star Wars 5/5
    The Empire Strikes Back 5/5
    Return Of The Jedi 5/5
    The Force Awakens 5/5
    The Last Jedi 5/5
    Rogue One 5/5

    Being Kicked In The Groin
    The Phantom Menace
    Crawling Naked Across Broken Glass
    Revenge Of The Sith
    Walking In On Your Parents Having Sex
    Attack Of The Clones
     
  20. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Don't forget tax audits and getting root canals! :D
     
    Plan9 and David Campbell like this.
  21. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    The Empire Strikes Back 10/10
    Star Wars 9/10
    Return Of The Jedi 8/10
    The Last Jedi 8/10
    The Force Awakens 7/10
    Attack Of The Clones 5/10
    The Phantom Menace 4/10

    Have never sat thru Sith. Haven't seen Rogue One yet.
     
    bferr1 likes this.
  22. Mr. Grieves

    Mr. Grieves Forum Resident

    My ranking as well. I'd put Rouge One under Awakens, & Sith under Rouge One.
     
    bferr1 and sunspot42 like this.
  23. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    That's my guess as to how I'd rank them as well, based on what I've seen of Sith and Rogue One.
     
    Mr. Grieves likes this.
  24. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    My ranking as of now...

    EMPIRE 10/10 (undisputed champ)
    A New Hope 9.5/10 ( the Challenger)
    The Force Awakens 9/10 ( a fun nostalgic jaunt. Star Wars was back!)
    The Last Jedi 8.75/10 (What The franchise needs. )
    Revenge of the Sith 8.5/10 ( shut up...I really like this one, even the cheese. Ian Mcdarmed steals the movie. The last montage is visually beautiful and tugs at the heart strings)
    Return of the Jedi 8/10 ( great last act saves it. best last act of the series to date IMO)
    Rogue One 7.5/10 (one word....Vader)

    I like all of the above movies and honestly the ranking below A New Hope can easily change daily depending on my mood. It's really tough as all of the above have great moments that I absolutely love.

    At the bottom...

    The Phantom Menace 6/10 ( great in scope and ideas...Flawed in execution, but not quite as bad as I remembered upon rewatch recently)
    Attack of the Clones 5/10 ( so much cringe. Has so much potential from a plot stand point. Ewan McGregor saves it from becoming unwatchable)

    I'm happy to report none of them ruined or raped my childhood. Although my childhood has a tummy ache from AOTC. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
    Mr. Grieves, bferr1 and Keith V like this.
  25. Mr. Grieves

    Mr. Grieves Forum Resident

    I like Sith too. I don't hate any of the prequels
     
    ianuaditis and bferr1 like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine