Why no 'USA' Prog bands made the big 5?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Rufus rag, Mar 5, 2018.

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  1. audiotom

    audiotom I can not hear a single sound as you scream

    Location:
    New Orleans La USA
    I consider the first side of Wizard A True Star a prog album
     
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  2. Blank Frank

    Blank Frank King of Carrot Flowers

    The art school influence on the British rock, pop, etc scenes in the '60s and '70s, even on into the '80s, is pretty unavoidable (not just prog by any means) - Ferry and Eno, Townshend, a Beatle or 2, it's a long list. Even a couple of Floyds started out training to be architects.

    Why? Not sure.

    My one source on this is my sister-in-law's brother (couple of years younger than me and went to art school just after I left university in the '70s), who did end up in a band for a while. He reckons that it is a combo of already being involved in artistic expression and being encouraged to express one's thoughts and feelings in different ways, having more time available than us science-y types (I had 3 years of 9-5 lectures, tutorials and practicals, then all the write ups, essays, prep, other reading, sorting out seminar presentations; he says he just had to roll in every now and then and as long as he produced whatever pieces of work in roughly the right time frame he was OK, so he had more spare time than I ever did), and realising that they were far less likely to make any money from art than music. Oh, and being involved in music was more sociable than being in his studio sculpting...
     
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  3. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member

    Location:
    NH
    Long? :D

    Seriously, I didn't mean to be so dismissive of Utopia. They are one of those bands that I've tried over the years to get into, but they don't really do a whole lot for me. I guess they are prog with a small p, but I mostly find that first album a bit too rambling and jammy for my taste. I confess it's the only Utopia album I own so I don't know if they became more palatable on later records or not. I do enjoy a lot of Todd's solo stuff though.
     
  4. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Well, I can hear the African-American rhythmic core in the majority of big-P repertoire.

    Anyway, I have a feeling that for many prog fans and detractors the essence of Prog is supposed to sound (and look) something like this:



    :)
     
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  5. Deek57

    Deek57 Forum Resident

    Spirit, prog ? no chance.. I know I've got/had all their albums even Feedback..
     
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  6. Rufus rag

    Rufus rag Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    I know exactly what you mean but you should listen to RA, it's their most cohesive, melodic Prog album they made! Desert island disc for me!
     
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  7. October Man

    October Man Extraordinary tunes from the hard drive



    From California.
     
  8. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    What are they supposed to do for you?
     
  9. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
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  10. mw1917

    mw1917 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Good points. I think it's also a general sense of teenagers in UK art schools having access to ideas and concepts (or, at least having access to them earlier) that US teens largely didn't. The musicians in Styx and Kansas would not have been exposed to, to use one example (and an arguably not-very-proggy one), Pete Townshend lecturing at Brian Eno's college about tape composition and manipulation.
     
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  11. Blank Frank

    Blank Frank King of Carrot Flowers

    Yeah, I meant to include the bit about exposure to ideas...

    Being exposed to then cutting edge ideas about ecology, as I was, wouldn't have been of much help I reckon...
     
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  12. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    But seriously... why no US prog bands made the Big X? It is simple, because no original band not indebted in the Big X cartel has been allowed to enter the competition. The idea of the Big X was conceived by the fans of select few UK groups like YES, Genesis, ELP, etc as the foundation of the genre of Prog, which earlier (if used) had got no clear demarcation lines.

    Hence if I came with my Big 5 list containing Zappa, Can, Henry Cow, Soft Machine and King Crimson, it would be immediately disqualified as 80% non-Prog. Because prog is supposed to sound like the groups from the approved short-list and any original stylistic deviation (that actually makes any artist "big") is not accepted.

    Hence raising the initial question among Prog pundits is akin to asking why there are only US citizens among the Founding Fathers of the USA. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  13. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Would replace Tull with Floyd. Tull were poseur. First they're a blues group, then an English folk rock group (Traffic wannabes), then without anyone noticing, they're suddenly supposed to be linked with Crimson, Yes , ELP and Genesis?
     
  14. RudolphS

    RudolphS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    Don't forget Greg Lake's carpet roadie and Carl Palmer's private karate teacher when on tour, the cut-out cardboard animals in the Yes studio for "getting into the environment", and the Concorde first-class flight tickets for Steve Howe's guitar.
     
  15. UK students/bands had a more robust exposure to arts culture than US youth, and as a result, they had a wider palette to draw from when they formed their bands. Heck, even Black Sabbath referenced Holst.

    Also consider the large proportion of Band members that came from art school and liberal arts backgrounds. Add this to the solid/profitable European music circuit and infrastructure in place for bands to actually work and hone their craft.

    Finally, a part of ethos of the listener in the late 60’s (in both the US and U.K.) is the expectation from the audiences to do something original.

    In short, the U.K. bands had a deeper well to draw from. Because of this, more experimental avenues were encouraged and audiences were there to support this music.
     
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  16. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    And in 1989, it was determined they were the Best Metal Band.

    They did it all!
     
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  17. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    floyd are my favourite band but i would never knock tull. they are an awesome band and with aqualung, think as a brick, a passion play, minstrel in the gallery songs from the wood and heavy horses in their catalogue i don't think anyone can knock their credentials
     
  18. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    Oh I love Tull music! But I was kinda only half kidding with the did-it-all assessment; they explored a wide variety of styles, often within a given album.

    And I think it's pertinent to this thread. Many are off trying to forge a Definitive Description of prog, and what constitutes First Tier and Second Tier. When the more accurate assessment is that there is no linear timetable when humans are making art. There are some cultural generalizations that can be taken into account, but individual artists with unique POVs will always make a difference.

    Anderson is one of them. Fripp another. Frith another. And on and on.
     
  19. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member

    Location:
    NH
    Would have been nice if they were out shoveling my driveway this morning. Add water, makes it own sauce, that kind of thing.
     
  20. yarbles

    yarbles Too sick to pray

    The US didn't need any top prog bands of its own, just like it didn't need any great heavy rock bands. Why? Because we Brits had those bases covered :righton:
     
  21. stax o' wax

    stax o' wax Forum Resident

    Location:
    The West
    Tull were Posuer?
    "Traffic Wannabees"
    "without anyone noticing they're suddenly linked with Crimson,Yes,ELP".....
    Tull has been widely considered one of the finest progressive rock acts since the early -mid 70's.
    So your telling me that albums such as A Passion Play, Thick As A Brick, Aqualung, War Child,Songs From The Woods are not authentic, original artistic statements and do not merit the respect we give these other core 5 prog acts?
    Also, did it ever occur to you that JT matured and grew as artists and musicians (also key personnel changes) and were then able to more fully realize their artistic vision and direction....whats wrong with that?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  22. The Bishop

    The Bishop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dorset, England.
    That’s it exactly: fusion, was the American prog.

    Return To Forever, were friendly with Yes, as I recall reading.
     
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  23. The Bishop

    The Bishop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dorset, England.
    Progressive, but definitely not prog.
     
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  24. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    You didn't need to put in all that effort attempting to sway my opinion toward Jethro Dull. Ian & Co. hopped on the bandwagon.
     
  25. jay.dee

    jay.dee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Let's convene a Prog synod, dear Bishop, and eradicate all prog heresies once and for all. We have some great traditions and experience in these matters in Spain... ;)
     
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