Listenin' to Classical Music and Conversation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bluemooze, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. I had been agonizing over this one for the last few days. "Moltto Allegro," indeed. It seems, though, that the Mozart 225 set got it right as its K550 of primary presentation. There are 4 symphony #40s in this set, but I could live happily with this one. Even the slightest nuance is not lost, and the period instruments don't sound like rats in a flaming bag, unlike the Hogwood rendition (I used to love that one, until I spread my wings).

    Franz Brugen
    [​IMG]

    A special shout out Mark Minkowski & Les Musiciens du Louvre, who a do magical version with clarinets, though most tend to romanticize either the first of second movement, or both!

    NOTE: I have nothing against Hogwood. His stuff is brilliant, most of the time. In fact, his K 297 "Paris" symphony is hard to beat, on any day, by anybody. :)
     
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  2. *Zod*

    *Zod* Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    that is an awesome cover.....I've never seen it.
     
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  3. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    I do believe there is some reasoning behind it, but all people who had a say in this are probably already dead. What I could observe is that in the beginning they had separate covers for all languages. It is especially evident in the ‘50s, where even French and Spanish language covers existed, sometimes with completely different graphics. As DG consolidated their business and finally emerged out of the post-WWII chaos, and their Hanover pressing plant expanded, they started to press and print more discs there for export. DG’s main claim to fame during those days, or at least what set them apart from other labels at the time, was the pressing quality. So they probably thought it was a good idea to press as many records as possible in their own plant, and ship entire batches, rather than just sending over master tape copies to other countries. I imagine at that point it would have been impossible to do separate printing runs with different language labels, so they just kept the German ones. The covers, however, were still kept separate, so you have stuff like Karajan’s Brahms Symphonies box which only exists in English (since it was for export only in that configuration), but the tulip labels are all in German.

    Then I believe sometime in the 70s they realised they could print both languages on the cover and be done with it. That Planets cover is probably from around the transition time. I’m sure that for most of its heyday, DG’s graphics department always did their designs in multiple language versions, just like Hyperion still does today (even if only for their website).

    Another related thing I’ve noticed while going through my collection: have your seen how DG’s labels are always perfectly facing in the same direction if you turn the record over? (At least for those pressed in Germany). That means they always had to make sure in the plant that the labels are aligned, which was probably a pain to do, and on top of it pretty unnecessary, except for those with OCD. I don’t know of any other company who does that.
     
  4. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    I wonder if there were completely-domestic version of Philips classical vinyl, i.e. ones with only Dutch language written all around.
     
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  5. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    I remember there were some DG vinyl titles pressed by UK polydor in the 70s and by US MGM in the 60s.
    In Japan, DG vinyl were pressed in Japan all the time while Arhive vinyl were imported from Germany up to a certain point. There were some exceptions for both.
     
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  6. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Was the Japanese vinyl pressed from German plates (i.e. 320?). I don’t have any of those, but I have a Korean pressing from 1984 and it’s made from German metalwork.
     
  7. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    As far as I remember, they were cut by Japanese Polydor but began to use the German plates in the 70s because the sound of the Japanese DG vinyl was criticized compared with the German counterpoints. (But much improvement was not seen at last. The reason was uncertain.)
     
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  8. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Not Philips, but I have this Philips-pressed Decca vinyl. The liner notes on the back are also in Dutch, exclusively:

    [​IMG]

    Most of my Holland-pressed Philips vinyl has titles in German :confused:
     
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  9. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    BTW it is said that Alfred Lion did not allow the foreign manufacturing license of Blue Note vinyl because French Vogue has cheated the numbers of pressing report.
     
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  10. ShallowMemory

    ShallowMemory Classical Princess

    Location:
    GB
    Some like that one were issued over here pressed and distributed by Decca.
     
  11. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    Yes, some do. I don’t.
     
  12. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    Did I say that most, if not all, Japanese really like the sound of DG and Philips and regard them as true audiophile sound?
     
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  13. ShallowMemory

    ShallowMemory Classical Princess

    Location:
    GB
    Thanks for that history, Crispi. It wasn't until the 80's I saw EMI UK discs in anything other than English and suspect the logic would of similar to DG when there was a consolidation of pressing with a number being imported in their entirety requiring this.
     
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  14. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    Ugh. That is why?? I wondered all these years. And true, I forgot about their collaboration the 50s. I believe Blue Note pressed some Vogue productions as well as vice versa.

    A real pity, to be honest. That is why Blue Note vinyl is the rarest and most expensive of those labels, at least when it comes to the original era. After Lion retired, Liberty started pressing records in Europe, often from the same plates.

    There is now an Alfred Lion Bridge in Berlin, btw, around the place where he was born. I discovered it by accident two years ago. The house he was born in still stands.
     
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  15. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    It's okay that they do, in my opinion. At least this way they get to experience some excellent interpretations on the pretense of audiophile sound. I find it more regrettable when people dismiss entire labels based on the sound. But hey, that's fine, too, since they're probably not in it for the music anyway, just for the sound.
     
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  16. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    It is OK to me, too. All I want is that Karajan’s discs had been just better recorded. :D
     
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  17. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    Stokowski’s Firebird on EMI is one of the handful of best recordings of Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra. It sounds fantastically realistic and it happens to be the very first stereo recording of the ensemble.
     
  18. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    That was Burkowitz engineering, right? Ever since you mentioned him, I got out and read his book(s).
     
  19. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    That’s right. He used just a stereo microphone (Neumann SM2) for it.
     
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  20. Soulpope

    Soulpope Common one

    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    [​IMG]

    (CD Deutsche Grammophon 429 765-2) 1990 .... recorded September 1989 .... beneath Dohnanyi/Cleveland Orchestra (IMO) the most successful Brahms cycle of the 1980`s and this outstanding Symphony 3 likely the highpoint of these enlightening Abbado/Berliner Philharmoniker Brahms performances ....
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  21. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    A few historical facts and historical context: Admiral De Ruyter wasn't following an invitation with his Raid on the Medway in 1667: Raid on the Medway - Wikipedia
    Dutch Stadholder Willem III, however, was indeed invited when he invaded England in 1688.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  22. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass.
    Looks like an ordinary storm to me, but local weather seems to think it's a catastrophe and no one's heading downtown-- so, some catastrophe music (the Berg op. 6).

    [​IMG]
     
  23. ibanez_ax

    ibanez_ax Forum Resident

    CD from the Decca Sound-The Analogue Years box. The bonus tracks are Rachmaninov 2 by Solti/Katchen.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Wugged

    Wugged Forum Resident

    Location:
    Warsaw, Poland
    True. The Dutch were not invited for the Battle of Medway. The Dutch attacked whilst King Charles had laid up his fleet and peace negotiations were in progress...... er hum..... :whistle:
     
  25. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    That's not the whole story, King Charles' fleet had been laid up due to expenditure restrictions and he also had a hidden agenda (his contacts with France, an adversary of the Dutch Republic). The Dutch seized the opportunity to strike first and end the war: Raid on the Medway - Wikipedia

    Let's go back to the music :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018

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