Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MLutthans, Nov 10, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    I grew up on the original trilogy. I was in the theater in ‘77, ‘80 and ‘83.

    We know that Luke trained on Dagobah for a very short period because his time on Dagobah runs parallel to the Millennium Falcon’s time in the film. Luke and the Millennium Falcon leave Hoth at the same time. Luke goes to Cloud City shortly after Han and company are captured. Can you get a general of how much time Han and Leia were on the run from the Empire after leaving Hoth? They were chased once, ended up in a giant asteroid, spent a little time there, left, were chased again, then went to Cloud City. I’m just guessing, but it doesn’t seem like a considerable amount of time. And like I said, the events of Luke’s story run parallel to the events of Han and Leia’s. So I threw out an arbritraty timeline. Two days seems about right. Not much more, not much less.

    The misogyny argument comes from the use of the misogynistic term, “Mary Sue.” My use of the term “misogynistic” in this recent back and forth was a direct reaction to the Pagaeu video posted in which he uses the misogynistic term and argues that The Last Jedi is an attack on masculinity. I posted a video. Somebody reacted to that video, and I reacted to that reaction. I didn’t refer to any forum member in this recent back and forth as misogynistic.
     
  2. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I agree that Luke was on Dagobah for a short time (but it seems longer than a couple of days to me). But when Luke faces Vader, Vader toys with him and absolutely destroys him. The part where Vader shuts off his light saber and pelts Luke with the force shows how lopsided it was.

    In contrast, Rey actually defeats Kylo. Granted, Kylo is no Vader, but still.

    I do not know the time period between Empire and Jedi, but we are certainly to believe Luke has become a full blown Jedi Knight.
     
    marblesmike likes this.
  3. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    It is lopsided. It's almost laughable to compare the two.

    I'm okay with her quick abilities if they can come up with some explanation as to how Rey is so powerful. That's why I was disappointed that she is supposedly "no one," although admittedly I have no idea where JJ will take this in IX.
     
    delmonaco likes this.
  4. lambfan68

    lambfan68 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minnesota
    It has been mentioned many times that the Jedi Order wasn't a lineage thing. Individuals strong in the Force were found and brought into the fold. It was somewhat of a rare thing that it ran in family bloodlines. Some of the most notable Jedis in history were also nobodies.
     
    David Campbell and sunspot42 like this.
  5. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I get it, but she seems like she's likely more powerful than most would be in her position. Why else would Skywalker's saber call out to her?
     
  6. Thievius

    Thievius Blue Oyster Cult-ist

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    I'm watching this tonight for the first time and I don't know what it is but I'm bored out of my friggin' gourd. I checked the time on my remote expecting to see that I'm halfway through the film, but nope - only 35 minutes. Wow. I don't know, man. I'm sure I'll watch the rest eventually but I am not feeling this at all tonight.
     
    Ghostworld likes this.
  7. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Except that Leia's plan failed and Luke's ploy was the one that ultimately succeeded. But nevermind.

    (And Luke had good reason to be pretty useless - he'd effed everything up and given up on the Jedi, and not without cause as Yoda was happy to agree. Rey however hedged those bets. She isn't sure where the answers are, but she's not done asking questions.)

    Except that the women in TLJ are as lost and screw up as much as the men - if not more - and everybody's bacon is only pulled out of the fire at the 11th hour by suicidal sacrifice on the part of Holdo and Luke Skywalker, and Rey finally showing up with the Falcon to act as a bulldozer and taxi service.

    I love how people can watch a film and yet are so tied up by imaginary grievances they completely ignore what actually happened in a film so they can complain about their imaginary grievances instead.

    Maybe you should save the $12 or whatever and just stay at home and make up crap to be offended by.
     
    David Campbell and BeatleJWOL like this.
  8. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    It's amazing to me how obvious this scene is, and yet how many critics of the film completely ignore it, and then proceed to prattle on about how there's no character development in the film.

    Uh, maybe y'all should have watched the actual film on the screen, and not whatever was playing in your head.

    I think the film has all kinds of problems, mostly with tone but also some of the editing and especially the Leia Poppins scene which lands with a thud and the nonsensical (in context of the other films) hyperspace ram, but what they do with Rey is brilliant.
     
  9. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I had no idea he'd done Brick, which I thought was a mess but was hugely influential with millennials.

    That having been said, I do remember quite a bit of Brick. And I thought the idea of doing this suburban 21st century teenage film noir was genius, even if it didn't really work.
     
    Jim B. likes this.
  10. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    In The Force Awakens? He'd just taken a blaster bolt to the guts and was bleeding out. No surprise Rey was able to fend him off there.

    By the time of The Last Jedi it was pretty clear Rey was more powerful with the Force than Kylo. She's probably got Yoda-level powers. Which is what makes her so dangerous and will make the next film so interesting - which way will she go?

    If you look at the cave scene with all the reflections of Rey, it does seem to imply that the Dark Side can't find easy weaknesses in her - greed or situational fear or even fear of turning to the Dark Side, like with Luke. There was nothing to use on Rey but Rey. Does this mean she's destined to be neither good nor bad, neither light nor dark?

    Personally, I think Rey is the one the ancient prophecy spoke of, the one who will bring balance to the Force. That would be a great way to tie up the whole series before spinning off into something different. And it fits with her character, where knowledge and questions aren't forbidden and where the responsibility for her behavior is her's and can't be excused by the Force.
     
    Encuentro likes this.
  11. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    I don't think that the scene with Rey in the cave is so obvious. The way I read it (yes, I'm still trying to find some valid points and to make some sense of this whole mess) is that Rey is actually some sort of "mirror". This would explain the fact that she was able to reflect the force applied to her and to use it against the "force source". This is the most satisfactory explanation I could figure out.
     
  12. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    In you opinion! Not in the opinion of the vast majority of fans and critics. Say you don't like it but don't make nonsense absolute statements.

    I watched it again as the BD was released Monday here. I like it even more now. Visually so much of it is stunning. The scenes with Luke and Rey, and Chewie, on the island I think are comedy gold and the acting from both of them great. I love the fact that throughout the film things just don't follow like you would expect them to, like in real life there are suprises, misunderstandings, mistakes.

    The only two things I have issues with are the whole Finn sub-plot which seems silly and is a waste of time, I guess they felt they needed him to do 'something' in the film. And a minor thing which is at the end when Poe introduces himself to Rey (surely they would have met at the rebel base at the end of the last film).

    One thing on this whole debate I find perplexing and I can only imagine stems from the minds of insecure young males is this idea that the film has some kind of agenda politically. I don't have a problem with a strong female character and supporting male characters that don't do much. The reverse is usually the case anyway in 95% of films ever made and they always seem to get a pass, yet when it's the other way round lots of people start crying like pathetic school children. Grow up.
     
  13. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    I wrote it, so of course it is my opinion. There's no need to put "IMO" after every word I post.
    Also, if you cared to read my entire post, and not only to quote a tiny fragment out of the context (which seems to be some persistent habit of yours), you would see that the main idea of what I wrote is exactly to address this nonsense political/agenda battle, that seems to play a major role when people form and express opinions on this movie.
     
  14. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    You do actually, as there is a vast difference between saying something is bad and saying you don't like it. It's not the same thing. You are arrogantly expressing your opinion as fact, when the evidence is the opposite.

    For example I dislike, with a passion, the music of Led Zeppelin. 'I' think it's bad. But I would never be so arrogant as to say they are a bad, untalented band, as clearly many people find joy in their Tolkien-esque over the top guitar antics. I would just say I don't enjoy their music.

    So, and excuse me if English isn't your first language, instead of your weekly comment of saying 'this is a bad movie' why not try saying something like 'this movie didn't work for me'.

    I think that would actually help create a better atmosphere for debate rather than you usual blanket dismissal which only acts to polarise the debate further.
     
    sunspot42 likes this.
  15. medium Rob

    medium Rob Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Virginia
    Do you typically browse the internet, read and post on forums while watching movies? Do you have difficulty focusing on a single activity for a substantial duration of time? Was it just that night (last night?), that you weren't feeling it? Let us know if / when you've finished it... what are your thoughts / feelings ?
     
    Sondek likes this.
  16. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    If I say / write that something is bad, it’s clearly my personal opinion, as I don’t speak on behalf of some group or community. It would be arrogant if I was universally accepted as an influential authority of some sort, which I’m not.

    If you care to read my posts in this thread, you’ll see that my posts express my view on some issues of this movie, and I’m trying to be as clear and particular as possible (yes, English is not my first language, but I believe that what I wrote can be understood)

    Reading some of the posts here, and watching some of the youtube rants, sometimes I feel like I witness a civil war of some sort, and this movie is regarded as just another opportunity everyone to share his political and social views and to take part based on it’s general believes. I try to comment and analyze on this only in terms of movie making and storytelling.

    I enjoy this forum as a place for discussion, and I don’t want to fight with anyone. Accept my apologies for being slightly rude to you, saying that you have a persistent habit to quote small parts from my posts, disjointed from the general context. This issue was actually addressed several times by our host as a undesirable practice, and it’s really not the best way to do a discussion. Nevertheless, if this was a bit offensive to you, please accept my honest apology. I often spot your posts in other (mainly music) discussions, and in most cases I agree, share and respect your opinion. We are not enemies, just happens to have quite opposite view about some B movie, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s nothing to do with politics and social agenda. By underlining that this is a bad movie (IMO), I wanted to clearly point out that I regard it as a movie (plot, structure, characters, script), and not as a social or political statement.
     
    superstar19 likes this.
  17. Thievius

    Thievius Blue Oyster Cult-ist

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    No I always give films my undivided attention; like I would in a theater. And no, I haven't gone back to it yet. I have a feeling I just wasn't in a Star Wars mood or something last night. I definitely will give it another shot and check back in.
     
  18. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Your English is superb btw, better than most of the native English speakers on this board.
     
    superstar19 likes this.
  19. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Thanks - you have to see me when I really try hard..;)
     
    coffeetime likes this.
  20. Bobby Buckshot

    Bobby Buckshot Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    Watched this last night. First time I've ever watching anything no Blu-ray so how about that? I'm getting old I guess. Anyway, loved this movie. I really have nothing to complain about (well, I did find it comical how little thought went into the design of these air fleets - from the Rebel bombers to the Empire's dreadnought - but hey, it's part of the story so no worries). This was a great action movie though, gives the viewer something to think about without being too full of itself.

    Actually glad I got to watch this first with captions (not hard of hearing, captions just help me follow the dialogue much better). If I didn't have the captions on, I would have missed Poe's play on words in the first scene where he calls Hux, "Hugs," multiple times. I'm not a SW fanatic by any means but I've seen all the movies. I think this was a great installment in the series and a good move forward for these new characters. I dig how they show Hux leering at Ren at the end, leading the viewer to understand all's not well between these guys and that a power play is likely fomenting.

    And a moment of silence for Admiral Ackbar. Hated what happened. Whenever he was talking, action was happening. Sad to see him go.
     
  21. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    The film has a 47% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. That is hardly the vast majority of fans. It is not even a majority.

    I do think it has a political agenda. I wonder how audience approval for this film breaks down by political ideology? It would be interesting to know.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
    Wounded Land and Ghostworld like this.
  22. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    I think the worse sin of this film is that it leaves me with no feeling of anxiousness for the next installment. I mean, after "The Force Awakens" I was online looking for clues and wondering what was going to happen next. Now? The story feels over to me. Maybe it's the knowledge of Luke's ultimate fate that has completely taken the wind out of my sails. The series could end now as far as I'm concerned. It feels resolved. I'm not that curious about what happens next. And whatever happens next it won't be a true ending anyway because they need to keep making these films for all eternity. I can only hope Abrams turns this thing around in a big way with the next installment. But I'm just about ready to throw in the towel. You brought all my heroes back so I could watch them die. Thank you.
     
  23. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm kinda where you are with this. I liked TLJ opening night, but knew there were major flaws, so I saw it again a few weeks later and haven't had much interest in all things Star Wars since...no urgency in wanting to know what happens next with Rey/Finn/Poe like I did after TFA. Oh well.

    I don't think it's a terrible movie. Maybe it's the way Luke went down--maybe it's the lack of interest generated inside me for the fates of the newer characters. I don't know. I'm definitely going to see IX whenever it comes out as well as Solo, but I don't have that same excitement I had after seeing TFA.
     
  24. robertawillisjr

    robertawillisjr Music Lover

    Location:
    Hampton, VA
    I just saw it and liked it. Typical Star Wars but a bit more "grown up". Much better than any of the excretable "prequels".
     
  25. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    i don't trust the Rotten Tomatoes audience scores, they are far to easy to be manipulated. The IMDB audience rating, which is a far greater sample size so more accurate, is 7.4 which is pretty positive.
     
    sunspot42 likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine