Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MLutthans, Nov 10, 2015.

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  1. BeatleStair

    BeatleStair Senior Member

    Location:
    Fort Wayne, IN
    My thoughts exactly. I just read that Mark Hamill is fine ending his involvement at The Last Jedi. I'm afraid with no Hamill as a force ghost at least in 9 I have very little desire to watch the next film. I'm pretty much out of the whole Star Wars saga for sure after 9 but may not even watch 9 in the theaters. It feels like 8 was the closer.
    The Solo movie just looks tired and I have no desire to watch anymore films by the director of 8. It's an okay film but just lets too many things drift from 8 that it just seems designed to make more Star Wars films. I guess that's fine but this galaxy doesn't seem to me to have enough interesting things to say beyond the original characters - for me anyway.
    This is one time leaving well enough alone with the first three films probably would have been best.
     
  2. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I don't get that. I thought Luke's sacrifice was very clever and extremely moving. He knew he had to help and have his life to save the others, in a really cool way (the shoulder flick, dice, wink at C3PO). Perfect imo. It would look ridiculous him at his age actually fighting anyone.
     
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  3. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    We saw Dooku fighting and he was far older than Luke. I'm not saying he needed to wave his hand and Force knock the First Order out of the sky. Maybe a more significant role would have done more for me, I dunno.

    And would it be any more ridiculous seeing Luke fight a little than watching Rey (who has only used the Force for mere days by the fight scene in TLJ) fight like a fully trained Jedi Knight akin to something out of the prequel trilogy?
     
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  4. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    This is one part of the film I actually loved. Except I wished they had not killed Luke.
     
  5. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Yeah I liked it, but would have preferred that wasn't the way he'd die.
     
  6. Bobby Buckshot

    Bobby Buckshot Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    Maybe it's just semantics here but Luke, like Yoda, Obi Wan, etc. didn't really "die" in the traditional sense. As I understand it, the final jedi state involves leaving their corporeal form and achieving an advanced state of being. Those jedi I mentioned earlier, including Vader, did just that which is why they can appear and have an effect on the material reality. It's like a jedi nirvana with aspects of Gnosticism mixed in. Luke had finally advanced himself to where he was able to achieve this. I thought this was made more clear in that scene with the suns and his countenance at the time.

    On the other hand, those dark side adherents crave the physical, and as you see as they advance they deteriorate or carry some physical scarring. I would say that Ren is moving toward this aspect as it seemed his face/neck was getting worse off as the movie went on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Snoke was killed his body remained.
     
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  7. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    I'm bummed out after watching The Last Jedi 3-D.

    I'm disgusted by what they've done to the Luke Skywalker character. One of the cinema's most inspiring heroic characters, so carefully thought out and delineated in the past, is turned into a wuss and a failure who disappoints everybody and retreats into his own cowardly hole. It makes no sense, given all that has come before, but that's what the executives required, and that's what the writer-director delivered. I never thought reverse gender discrimination would sour the Star Wars movies, which had always been fair to everybody. Deconstructing the male hero is a trend rampaging through film industry right now.

    Mark Hamill was quite right to walk away from the franchise after what they've done to him. He fulfilled his contractual obligations like the pro he is. But the truth is they were finished with him anyhow, after they got what they wanted out of him for this film. After all he's given to Star Wars over the decades, he deserved better.

    I'm disappointed in the fans, especially the old fans who should know better, for tolerating this and not speaking out against it.

    I was twenty years old and just married when the first film came out in 1977, and I've stuck with the franchise through all the ups and downs. Time to walk away from Star Wars. The studio execs realize they have a younger generation of fans who don't know better and couldn't care less so who needs the older fans. I'm going to sell off 7, 8 and 9 now. I really can't stand them.
     
  8. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I'll buy 9 please! Didn't think they had even started filming it yet.
     
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  9. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Wow, so the Star Wars franchise is now a first line combatant in the war on the male sex.
     
  10. crimsondonkey

    crimsondonkey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midlands, UK
    Where did you read that? The internet? :rolleyes:
     
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  11. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Yep, I just learned that reverse gender discrimination by deconstructing the male hero is happening in the Star Wars movies. I'm getting scared.
     
  12. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    You think that's bad? You'll hate what they did to the dashing and heroic Obi-Wan Kenobi from episodes 1-3 in episodes 4-6. They couldn't even manage to get the same actor to play him. :laugh:
     
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  13. fishcane

    fishcane Dirt Farmer

    Location:
    Finger Lakes,NY
    Im with the camp that really feels that with Lukes departure that the story is resolved for me. I echo the sentiment that the franchise did nothing to engage me in the new characters, there really is nothing more I need to know
     
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  14. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Listen, I think there are legitimate gender issues going both ways in our society (towards male and female discrimination) that certainly turn their ugly heads in popular culture (follow the money), but I don't think that is the crux of what's wrong with TLJ and is a lazy way to disparage the movie.
     
  15. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    Or, maybe this is too wild an idea, but let's try it out: is it possible that, perhaps, some of the "old fans" and new fans alike actually *shock* don't just have to "tolerate" this or *horror* speak out against it because they *le gasp* ENJOYED IT?
     
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  16. Wounded Land

    Wounded Land Forum Resident

    I could be wrong, but I don't think anybody said that, at least not in this conversation.
     
  17. JAuz

    JAuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Count me as one that really enjoyed Mark's performance in TLJ. With Harrison and Carrie, it was enough to see them portraying some of my childhood favorites once again, but given a little critical thought afterward (and a second viewing) they seemed ragged and tired, and not in the a good way. In contrast, I thought Mark was outstanding in TLJ. We don't get to see him enough as an actor.

    Is there any chance that one of these Star Wars anthology films could be about Luke from sometime after Return Of the Jedi (way after perhaps), and have Mark play him?
     
  18. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Well, there was this post:
     
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  19. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    That ship has sailed I'm afraid. They should have done a sequel trilogy 15 years ago.

    Maybe animated would work now?
     
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  20. Wounded Land

    Wounded Land Forum Resident

    I didn’t take that as a comment on Luke specifically.
     
  21. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Reading the whole paragraph, I wouldn't know how else to take it.
    But maybe I got it wrong. Who knows?
     
  22. Wounded Land

    Wounded Land Forum Resident

    My bad. Apologies. No need for snark.
     
  23. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Sorry, I didn't intend to be snarky.
     
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  24. C4rl

    C4rl Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Fens
    Like a few of the previous posters, I’ve been a fan since Star Wars first came out, I’ve had multiple copies of all the previous films as formats have changed but this was the last one for me. I’ve not bought the newly released Blu-Ray for the first time ever and I won’t be wasting my money at the cinema for any of the future releases.

    Let’s see if the new fans they’re so heavily concentrating on stick with the franchise like we so loyally have in the past do so for the next 30-40 years?
     
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  25. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    But, what do you expect Lucasfilm to do? They have to face some hard realities. The older cast from the original movies are dying off and aging out. We've lost Carrie Fisher. Harrison Ford decided long ago he was done with it all and the only reason he even returned for VII was a hefty paycheck and a promise to kill off Han. Mark is enthusiastic, yes but he's 67 years old . What did everyone that's railing about how they " treated" Luke expect? He'd come back in VIII and take over once again as the hero of this trilogy? Did you expect Leia on the front lines with blaster in hand running around like she was 20 still? After watching the behind the scenes stuff on the Blu-ray it's a miracle she even came off as well as she did. She was looking quite frail behind the scenes.

    You guys wanna get mad at someone? Get mad at George Lucas. He made the decision to not take advantage of Mark and Carrie when they were still young and healthy in the 80s through the early 2000's to do another trilogy featuring them as stars. Instead he did the prequels and decided that was going to be it.

    Did you guys expect that when Disney bought Lucasfilm they'd just sit on the property and not make new films? No way was Disney going to drop 4 billion dollars on Star Wars and just keep releasing repacked versions of the previous six movies ad nauseum for the sake of "preserving" Star Wars as it was for the sake of not upsetting the fanbase? I know a lot of people who wanted that to happen, but that was never realistic.


    As I keep saying ,there were only really two viable paths if they were going to continue the IP. Keep doing stories with Luke, Han and Leia but either recast everyone or do full CGI representations of Carrie, Mark and Harrison...Or move on with New characters and try and move this universe from being about just one family and bloodline and try to begin to plan for the future. Turns out they primarily did the later with a bit of the former to try and ease the transition...And they still get crusified.

    It sucks to see your childhood heroes fade away, but I'm one long time fan who grew up in the 80s and 90s who is glad Star Wars is going to continue on,even if someday they aren't making movies for me anymore. You had your Star Wars. Ive had mine. Why can't someone else have theirs? Why is it such a bad thing that these franchises move beyond us eventually? Are we so arrogant to think Lucasfilm needs to cater endlessly to men and women in their 30's, 40's and 50's who grew up with the originals and demand that we get new movies with our Star Wars until we all age out and die and screw the younger generation?

    And as for the new characters. You and I may not be as attached to them as you were the originals, but thats ok. There are plenty of people who are, especially kids. That's the point. We aren't children anymore. Star Wars were made to be kids movies. George himself said so. Why not let the kids of today have their version of this universe without us adults insisting that they only like what we did and nothing else?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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