Julian Cope Album by Album by Single by EP by Pseudonym Thread

I loved "Michelle Of My Former Self", thanks; I hadn't heard it before.

Also, Cope was right about the Happy Mondays!

 

My work here is done.

 

i forgot how great this album is. The packaging doesnt do this justice. it never struck me as a proper solo album. While it is a mismatch of styles they are all uniquely Julian. By the way, my copy only has one disc but says 2 cd set on the inner spine , did they not reprint the inner sleeve for later {single disc} releases?

 

"Play your gloom-axe Stephen O'Malley!"

Their recent collaboration as Vesuvio is pretty great too.

 

No - I think they just retained it IIRC. I have a single disc somewhere and I think it's the same cd tray insert.

 

LIVE JAPAN ’91 (2004)

Hanging Out and Hung Up on the Line / You Think It’s Love / East Easy Rider / Pristeen / Double Vegetation / Promised Land / Leperskin / Yeah Yeah Yeah / Bill Drummond Said / Beautiful Love / Sleeping Gas / Sunspots / Out of My Mind on Dope and Speed / World Shut Your Mouth

Official bootleg briefly available from Head Heritage.

 

Ooh, I never knew about this! Gotta look around for it.

 

I managed to get this when it was released. It’s excellent. But, I missed out on Floored Genius 3 & 4. I wish Julian would repress them (or at least make them available as downloads). Collecting Cope can be very frustrating!

 

Woah, I've been swamped, so haven't been checking the forum much, so it was a surprise to see all the progress made in this thread!

Anyway, trying to catch up...

I just re-listened to "Discover Odin", "LAMF", and "Love Peace & Bleep".

The first two were so-so. Not unplesant, but not memorable either.

The Brain Donor debut was much cooler than I remember. It reminds me more now of the Teardrops meets the Stooges. I think when I first heard it, I didn't know the Stooges, and wasn't into pre-punk music, so someo of the musical references were lost on me.

Anyway, I really enjoyed "Love Peace & Censor", particularly "She Saw Me Coming" and "Get Off Your Pretty Face". "Odin's Gift" sort of drags things down, but the album finishes aggressively, which I appreciate.

Right now I'm listening to "Too Freud...". It's also pretty good, but a little less catchy than the first 2 songs on "Love Peace & Asterisks". Not too far behind, though.

I'm enjoying this bout of re-listening, and look forward to the process of getting completely caught up!

 

Here's one more to add to your homework, Tripecac:


CITIZEN CAIN’D (2005)

Disc One: Hell Is Wicked / I Can’t Hardly Stand It / I’m Living in the Room They Found Saddam In / Gimme Head / Dying to Meet You / I Will Be Absorbed
Disc Two: Feels Like a Crying Shame / World War Pigs / Stomping Dionysus / Homeless Strangers / The Living Dead / Edge of Death

 

This was the first new Cope release I bought in a long, long time, even though I didn't actually buy it until 2011, so it was the first in about 15 years (since Interpreter, and not excluding the first Brain Donor one, which I'd thoroughly enjoyed). I didn't really know what to make of it when I first heard it, and even though I still can't say I put it on a lot, "I’m Living in the Room They Found Saddam In" and "World War Pigs" were songs that, lyrically at least, I found good entry points. I'll need to dig it out and play it again this weekend. Curious to hear what others thought of this when it first appeared given that I was six years late to the party.

 

I just listened to Citizen Cain'd again for the first time in years, so I'm now caught up with this topic!

That's the good news.

The bad news is that Citizen Cain'd is just as annoying as I remember.

Honestly, I think 90% of the problem is the production. It's horribly distorted and overcompressed, to the point of painful absurdity. It's as if everything is cranked up to 11, and then compressed... and compressed again.

For example,"I Can't Hardly Stand It" is a complete mess in terms of production, and not in a cute, low-budget/lo-fi post-punk sort of way. It sounds more like a decent band recorded by a crappy little tape recorder... and then with layers of other way-too-noisy guitars thrown on top. It really sounds bad. Un-fun. Fail.

The DR for that song is 2.

Yes, that's right. 2.

"I'm Living in the Room" is moderately catchy but the vocals are distorted so much it just sounds bad.

Most of the remaining of the songs are either annoying (due to the production or Cope's strained vocals) or boring.

IMO this album has two enjoyable songs: "Dying to Meet You" has a nice punky energy, and "Feels Like a Crying Shame" is groovy and catchy. In both of those songs, the production is fine, and the writing and performances are solid. If more songs had sounded like this, it would have been a good album.

But they didn't.

And it wasn't.

 

I didn't give Citizen Cain'd much of a chance when it came out, as I bought it at the same time as Dark Orgasm, and that album took up all of my attention (more on that later in the thread). It was only a couple years ago when Trip Advizer came out and featured "Hell Is Wicked" that I threw CC back on and truly listened. I ended up liking it just as much as Rome, and for me it has about the same ratio of great to good songs as Rome did.

This is the first of several albums where Cope chose to literally split up the program, forcing us to listen to them like extended vinyl sides. I always thought this was a great idea, as sometimes the extra length of a cd doesn't lend itself to one continual listening session, but giving us a sort of intermission breaks up the proceedings nicely. From the press blurb:

"Although all the material would have fitted on to one single CD, Cope has chosen to release CITIZEN CAIN’D as two short CDs of 34 and 37 minutes respectively; taking this approach because he deemed several of the songs ‘too psychologically exhausting’ for one single listen." I would agree.

As far as the sound production, Cope was heavily influenced by the underground bands he had been listening to for the past few years (and profiling in his Album of the Month reviews) such as Comets on Fire, Monoshock, Les Rallizes Denudes, Mainliner. These bands are pretty much the antithesis of the audiophile: loud, distorted, sloppy and overblown, but absolutely sonically pleasing to the right set of ears. Cope took these sounds and churned up his songs into that sonic blender, pushing them into the red and beyond.

Songwise, I like most of the album, and especially the first disc. Hell is Wicked, Living in the Room They Found Saddam In (which could almost be the greatest song title he's come up with, if it weren't for one from Black Sheep about blowing up motherf**ers), World War Pigs, Crying Shame, Gimme Head (which sounds like a Dark Orgasm outtake), so so many great songs.

I can fully understand the not-liking-it factor from the fans, its not an easy album to love. But as with every Cope album, I find they aren't all your favourite at first listen. Some of them take years to finally make you take notice, and some just punch you in the nuts until you submit to their will. CC is a bit of a nut kicker, not the best album but certainly worth more than a passing listen.

 

Citizen Cain'd might be my favorite post Interpreter album. "Hell is Wicked", "World War Pigs", "Stomping Dionysus", and "Homeless Strangers" are all great to these ears, and others too.

 

I relistened to Citizen Cain'd for the first time in a long time. The sound is indeed terrible, but a lot of my favourite albums have "terrible sound". It's actually a much stronger collection of songs than I recalled and I liked virtually everything on it. 'Gimme Head' is a a great Cope pop song underneath its crusty drag.

I was also reminded that Citizen Cain'd was promised as Cope's next 'real' album for a long time (like, years) before it finally emerged. I don't know whether he was talking about this particular collection of songs, or if he just thought it was a cool album title that he was intent on eventually using. I think that long anticipation probably made the album something of an anticlimax when I finally heard it, but it's held up really well. Does anybody else remember the same long wait?

 

Any updates on the Teardrop Explodes and Julian Cope box sets Mojo magazine mentioned for release this year

MOJO magazine reports a possible 17CD Julian Cope box set of Island Records material and a 9 disc Teardrop Explodes box set being put together for 2018.....

 

I haven't heard anything more about those, but for those who haven't heard yet, he just released Skellington 3. Early reports say it's quite good, I'm still waiting on my copy.

 

I don't remember the wait but I do remember it being billed as a return to "song-based" following the Rite, Queen Elizabeth, and Brain Donor releases.

 

A question for you diehards.
Always been aware of Julian Cope, but hardly knew his music. By accident I heard "World Shut Your Mouth" (the song) and picked up Saint Julian.
What albums do you recommend for a newcomer?
Thanks.

 

I would recommend Peggy Suicide, as it bridges the gap between his early psych pop sound and his later Detroit garage sound, and it's a ****ing brilliant album. He gets more experimental as he gets older, so the Trip Advizer comp distills the last 15 or so years of his solo albums.

Opinion is varied on his latest stuff. I love it, but a lot of old fans do not. Conversely, I'm not so hot on his early (pre-Peggy) albums, but most are. Check out Floored Genius for a good overview of this period.

 

Thank you; much appreciated.

 

I think if you like Saint Julian, the earlier, poppier stuff will be most similar, and "Floored Genius" provides a great sampling of that era. Plus, it covers the Teardrop Explodes, which might "click" with you even more than Cope's solo stuff.

His later (post-Floored Genius) material is usually very different from Saint Julian. There's no comprehensive sampler for that material yet, although "Trip Advizer" covers the later subset of it.

 

My copy of Skellington 3 turned up here in Tokyo yesterday. Only given it a single spin so far, but intend to listen to it more intently this week. First impression was that it was a less varied mix than the original Skellington, but I can't really compare it to the second instalment, which I've only heard once or twice over the years (unlike the original which I played to death). Came across as a coherent set of songs, with the fun perhaps to be had more in the lyrics than in any quirkiness in the music.

 

DARK ORGASM (2005)

Disc One: Zoroaster / White Bitch Comes Good / She’s Got Ring on Her Finger. . . (& Another One Through Her Nose) / Mr. Invasion / Nothing to Lose Except My Mind / I’ve Found a New Way to Love Here / I Don’t Wanna Grow Back
Disc Two: The Death & Resurrection Show

 

At first glance, this album seems completely devoid of Cope's usual humor and uniqueness.

- The title seems like a really lame attempt at sounding "metal".
- The cover art is a stupid metal cliche.
- The DR values range from 4 to 6 (!!!)

Then the music starts.

THE SONGS:

The first song, "Zoroaster", seems like yet another cliched attempt at sound "metal" and "dark". By the time it finally starts sounding interesting, it quickly fades out. I wish it had gone on later, with some wild solos. It feels like an aborted attempt at sounding "epic".

"White Bitch Comes Good" is much better. I like the fuzzy guitar sound. However, it, too, fades out just as the solos start kicking off. Why does he keep cutting off the solos? Is he afraid he (or his musicians) can't sustain a cool jam for very long? Or are long jams not "metal" enough for him?

"She’s Got Ring on Her Finger" has a decent solo, but the underlying song is sludgy, slightly annoying, and overall boring.

"Mr Invasion" has great punky energy, like a fast Brain Donor song. Its hooks are not very memorable, though. Perhaps if he had sang along to the main guitar riff it would be more of an earworm? But he didn't, and it isn't.

"Nothing to Lose Except My Mind" has really fake-sounding audience noise. What was the point of that? The song has some bad distortion/clipping (and is DR 4) - do you think he added audience noise in over to cover up the bad production? The jam section is cool, but, as always, the band doesn't seem to be able to sustain it for very long. And then come the fake thunder sounds. Sigh. Bad production ruins what is otherwise a decent song.

"I've Found a New Way to Love Her" is lighter, and not bad. But not memorable. It's just sort of "there".

"I Don't Wanna Grow Back" is a very welcome dash of sparseness and songwriting focus that reminds me of Peggy Suicide and Jehovahkill. In fact, if it had been unearthed as an outtake of that era, I would not have been surprised. I really like this style of Cope: a mix of sing-along choruses and relentless, krautrockish jamminess. This is easily my FAVORITE song on the album.

The epic "Death and Resurrection Show" finally lets loose in a way that I wish many of the other songs on the album would do. Unfortunately, it has no hooks. And the production kinda sucks (distortion, unbalanced vocal overdubs, etc.). However, I still appreciate being able to listen to the band rock out for a hefty period of time. If only some of this self-indulgent, improvisational confidence had been transferred to the catchier songs on the album. Oh well.

SUMMARY:

So, overall, what do I think? Well the production on this album is overall MUCH better than Citizen Cain'd; there are only a couple songs where it sounds annoyingly amateurish. On the downside, Cope's usual humor and delicacy seem to be completely missing. And there aren't nearly as many memorable hooks as in his first 2 decades.

My favorite song here ("I Don't Wanna Grow Back") sounds like NOTHING ELSE on the album, but rather like his Peggy/Jehovakill period. But that doesn't mean the rest of the album sucks. Instead, it is just "different" to what I usually look for in Cope. In terms of expectations, the album fails, but in terms of the actual listening experience, the feelings I get when listening to this album are much more positive than when I listen to Citizen Cain'd. The one's far less annoying, and has some truly cool musical moments.

If this had come out before Citizen Cain'd (and Brain Donor), I think I would have embraced it much more. But when it did come out, I think I was experiencing "metal fatique" when it came to Cope, so this sounded like "yet another metal wannabe".

And perhaps Cope felt the same way, because his next solo release (You Gotta Problem with Me) dispensed with the full-metal pretention and went back to the varied quirkiness that attracted many of us to Cope in the first place.