Petition launched to reintroduce Technics turntables (Update: The SL-1200 is Back!)*

I recall the mat Fremer referred to was something far more exotic & costly than a humble Achromat or Herbies Way Excellent. Extract below

"....The first thing you should do it remove the ribbed rubber mat. I replaced it first with the 5mm Funk Firm Achromat (compensating for the slight VTA change) and then with a new mat from Stein called “The Perfect Interface” Carbon edition. This is a thin mat of “special paper from the tapa cloth tree. It is so thin no need to adjust VTA. I was so surprised by the difference between the Achromat and this ultra-thin mat, I next tried the same record (the $555 ERC version of Tommy Flanagan’s Overseas [ERC021]) directly on the brass platter!

Don’t bother with that. “The Perfect Interface” produced an increased transparency, blacker backgrounds but especially transient precision that was easy to hear don’t ask me why that should be but it was easily audible.


Read more at The Technics SL-1200G Direct Drive Turntable ..."

 

Yeah, that Perfect Interface seems a bit too expensive for what amounts to a thin piece of paper.

 

Ridiculously expensive. Fremer lost some credibility IMHO with this recommendation.
Anyone looking for a great mat the Herbies 4mm sized for Technics platter is the one I prefer out of several tried for my GR.
The goofy thing about the stock mat is that it does not fit within the lip of the platter. The end overlaps the raised ridge and causes the mat to be ever so slightly bowl shaped.
Here is a summary of the ones I have tried-

Stock mat- best of the rest, really deep bass that causes it to dominate slightly. Highs very slightly edgy.

Achromat 5mm. Hollow sounding bass that seemed to actually cancel out / eliminate some bass notes. Reduced bass impact. Midrange and highs were nice sounding though.

Bull mat (another Fremer recomendation). Nice looking tan leather / cork mat that made the bass blurry and muddy.

Herbies way excellent II 4mm technic SL 12oo diameter. Overall the clear winner. Accurate smooth well balanced bass, detailed perfect midrange and sweet sounding highs. The difference is very noticeable. The "system" exceeds all of my vinyl playback expectations.

 

They sell for under £1300 here in UK (approx $1750). I suggest buy online to get the best price.

 

Why not cut out a circle of paper and try it? Description of that mat's material sounds like extreme bull and audiophoo to me.

 

Can you remind me again what TT you are using the Herbies on? Also, do you use a clamp?

 

Is the top of the GR different from the G? I know the G has the brass topper, but it’s absolutely flat with no lip.

 

I tried looking for that type of paper online but didn’t have any success.

 

SL-1200 GR / Ortofon Cadenza Blue and loving it!

No clamp. I do NOT need another step in my vinyl spinning procedure-

1) remove cover and set aside
2) selcet album, place on platter, place cover in easel, sleeve on speaker.
3) brush stylus.
4) brush album.
5) on switch.
6) on button.
7) cue up
8) slide tonearm over
9) cue down.
10) TA DAAA!!!!

 

Well it likely doesn't exist by that name. Suggest use any quality sheet of paper and see if the results are similar to Fremer's description.

 

Yes, the top of the GR is different. The G is flat with its brass plate, so it doesn't have the issue with the stock mat described by @avanti1960. I've found the stock mat sounds quite good on the G, and depending on the material it may sound better upside down (only with a 12"). It produces more bass with the ribbed side up, but a bit more taut bass with it upside down.

 

Thanks. Since I have the G and use a clamp, our experiences might differ. I wanted to check before laying out $80 on a Herbies mat.

I'm using the stock mat but smooth side up. I picked up that tip from KAB with my 1200Mk2. I'm not sure it makes a difference with the G's heavier and better damped platter.

 

do you notice an improvement with a clamp?

 

Weird - my GR stock mat does not have that issue. The mat is perfectly flat to the edge, which stops right before the beveled edge of the platter.

 

I can't say I hear an improvement from any one tweak but the idea of a clamp makes a lot of sense to me. They are supposed to couple the record to the mat/plater which should damp the stylus induced vibrations. Without good record to mat contact, I can't see where changing the mat would make much of a difference -- or maybe it's the other way round? The clamp does help flatten records and keeps the record from slipping when cleaning on the TT. I think a lot of what we do actually tweaks the way spurious vibrations color the sound which we either like or don't like. My approach is to eliminate or damp vibration before it can do much harm. I think the G and GR are doing a much better job of vibration control to start with so my tweaks are much less noticeable. That's why I've mentioned in a couple posts that a lot of what I do is for peace of mind, if nothing else.

 

That is interesting, though it makes sense that is should lie flat. Maybe @avanti1960 ’s mat is just a bit off. It’s the same mat for both the G/GAE and GR.

 

Agreed. I use a clamp (really a weight) and I’ve got the KAB fluid damper for the G. Both make slight improvements, but improvements nonetheless. I am really, really pleased with the performance of my turntable setup right now. I feel like I’m hearing everything the record has in its grooves in the way it’s supposed to sound.

 

My G mat is flat although I raised the outer edge of the platter by gluing a ring of 1mm X 4mm cork to the outer edge to raise the outer edge of the mat to give a very slight dish to the lp when clamped. The idea came from the Michell clamp that uses a washer at the spindle under the record. The G spindle is too short to use the regular Mitchell clmp and washer though so I sort of revered it with the Michell Rega clamp (used to shorter spindle TTs).

I wonder if the mat with the raised edge just has residue from being molded that can be cut off with a razor blade?

 

I also have the KAB fluid damping on my G. I made a significant upgrade to my preamp at about the same time so I don't know exactly to which to attribute the additional resolution and "realism" I'm getting.

 

The damper isn’t a huge difference, but it produces tighter, deeper bass and makes it sound like the music is just coming out of blackness. I’ve been sitting here listening to a few of the Music Matters Blue Note 33 reissues and I’m really impressed!

 

I absolutely love the 1200G and am going to leave it alone, without adding a damper. Not to say others don't like the effects, just that I haven't heard the slightest reason to need it.

I've played a lot of LPs including some pretty warped examples. The system measures +/-3dB down to 10hz so I 'should' hear pumping if it exists (4 x 15" drivers + M&K & B&W subs).

 

What cart?

 

All MMs:
Mostly Audio Note IQ3 & Roksan Chorus Black but also Ortofon 2M Black, AT150ANV, Grado Prestige 2 Black.

 

I decided to buy a SL1200G.

I'll be in the US in a few weeks. I looked at the Technics website and found a dealer in one of the cities I'm going to visit. I'll be there only for a couple of days.

The dealer has a GAE, and sells G, GR and even a 1210GR. The GAE is too expensive and I'm not sure I want to pay more than the price of a G plus a GR just to have a limited edition. I prefer black, if there were a 1210G that would be my choice. Since there isn't, I'm going with a G.

I emailed the dealer and have been in touch with then for a while. I made an appointment to audition the table in the very day I'll be there. The dealer says I need to pay in advance so they can be sure they'll have it available for me that day. I'll have a discount and with taxes it would cost me $3825.

It seems ok and I'm ready to pull the trigger, but just to be on the safe side I ask you if this is a usual procedure, paying in advance before auditioning, among US Technics dealers.