Better Call Saul - Season Four Discussion & Digestion

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by EVOLVIST, Jul 25, 2018.

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  1. snowman872

    snowman872 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wilcox, AZ
    You're right. We don't know the lawyers Jimmy worked with or opposed that because the writers spend all their time trying to shoot back story for an old series that is over. In fact, I am starting to view it as lazy script writing. It is much easier to fill the hours filling in the detail of a story already written than come up with new content. :(
     
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  2. snowman872

    snowman872 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wilcox, AZ
    I don't actually have a problem with some overlap with the Cartel and BB characters in at future point in the series when Jimmy/Saul actually meets them and gets involved with them. But even then, it's not necessary to shoot tons of footage about Mike doing loss prevention in a warehouse, Nacho drama, details of Gus/Mike building a secret drug factory or Gus giving a weird soliloquy that belonged in BB. I only want to see the Cartel in the context of Jimmy's perspective and life.

    If the producers wanted to shoot "Before Breaking Bad" that's what they should have done, not Better Call Saul. Or, extend BCS the series to 20 episodes per season to give sufficient air time to truly tell the story of Jimmy/Saul and include all this back story stuff.
     
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  3. That's part of the fun for me, I like a good mystery.

    I've liked him ever since "Do The Right Thing" 30 years ago. That guy can act.

    I agree. I'm not the least bit bored. I can't think of any other scripted show I'd rather be watching.
     
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  4. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Rewatching this week's. I love how when Jimmy is on the phone with the vet, the vet is asking him if he's taking good care of his fish. Easy to miss on the first viewing.
     
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  5. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    No offense, but youre watching the wrong series then.
     
  6. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    100% agree. This season, it feels like each BCS episode is now just 24 mins long, with another show occupying the balance of the running time. We know that Jimmy will eventually become a 'criminal' lawyer involved with the cartel, but I want to see that story being told from Jimmy's point of view (it's his show), not through a parallel narrative that soaks up so much time. And even when the so-called 'payoff' does come, I'll still feel cheated that so much episode time was spent on pointless back-fill.

    Funny, it didn't feel like I was watching the wrong series seasons 1 through to 3.
     
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  7. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    One thing you can say about Jimmy: He will never be accussed of laziness :)

    The scene with Howard and him was an air high five slap with a "Yeah lawyers, bitch!" shout out for me. Jimmy doesnt dislike Howard because of his character as much as he knows that he is a much smarter individual than Howard. And that Howard is not a very good lawyer at all. Jimmy was, if not only subconsciously, also saying "My brother built this firm. Dont let all he worked for sink you idiot." I still think Jimmy deeply loves his brother and is rather lost without him. As for Howard? Hard to say what is going on other than an impending nervous breakdown perhaps.

    Jimmy has became very focused now after the bombshell from Kim. He knows her making that move means his dream of a nice tidy office with Kim as his partner is slipping away. Jimmy knows he is slowly getting dumped and his focus on the underworld is now motivated more and more by his true nature and gut instincts. He has now involved himself and perpetrated his first violent crime. Or at least got a taste of that side because of his anger. Jimmy is tired of being the same puss that he tells Howard he is. Jimmy will let Saul out in the perfect storm of combining what he is good at: quick thinking and plotting a scheme and a mind for using the law to his advantage. Watching BB shows that Saul knows the law very well and how to use it.

    He knows that Kim and his relationship has a "forque" in it. But is it a "forque" in the road? Or "put a "forque" in it" its done?

    Forque by the way is a real restaurant in Albequrque, NM. Notice when Jimmy is standing in the kitchen the sign behind him symbolically reading "Forque".

    Kim is smart Ill say that much. The opening scene shows how driven she really was. As if we didnt know that already. Im not sure I buy her lofty position that she enjoys being a criminal lawyer and "helping people". I wonder if it isnt a very smart ploy to try and show Jimmy thats where he should be. Doing some good and not scheming away. Probably wrong.

    Things are getting slowly steamy. I think there are many forks to come.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  8. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Another small thought: Im rewatching BB at the same time. Saul sure has a big supply of phones he rips in half over and over. I think this phone scam thing will be something that lasts a bit with Jimmy.
     
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  9. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    [​IMG]

    One of the funniest scenes with Saul, when it takes him a while to figure out which phone is ringing.
     
  10. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Only if there's a big part of the plot that's being established. It does seem like a long way to go just to have that one German worker get cocky, blab a bit, and get whacked or whatever. We know the lab is big secret for many years to come, so no one will be on the edge of his or her seat when the cops come sniffing around the area.
     
  11. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I especially enjoyed the final sequence. I knew Jimmy was leading the kids into a trap, but I really thought the thugs were going to split their heads open at the end (almost like the scene with Tuco in season one). I went from expecting a horrific bloodbath to laughing when I saw one of the thugs was Huell. What an emotional roller coaster that was! Great stuff!
     
  12. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    I wonder when Kim will finally confront Jimmy and tell him straight up he is a liar? He doesnt know she read his yellow note pad. Lies to her about that and about having to go to the bathroom. Women need one big thing in a relationship: trust. And even the stoic Kim needs that.

    Then again, there are certainly hidden things on both ends. Kim is really doing the same thing Jimmy does. Omitting the truth.

    This season is doing exactly what the entire series has done. Defining characters. We are learning more about what makes these characters tick. We learn from Gus as a fly on the wall that he has always been unmerciful and how ultimately this will be his downfall.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  13. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I also think Kim's new affiliation with the law firm was very unrealistic. We don't know all of what happened off-screen, of course, but Mesa Verde certainly would have to weigh in on whether they wanted to be associated with the new firm. Kim does not have anything approaching carte blanche in that regard. And being made partner simply on the basis of one client would be very difficult to do (especially an equity partner, which was implied). I tend to doubt a firm with a solid reputation would make a lawyer a partner based on one client, which could decide to go elsewhere at a moment's notice. I've heard of entire divisions in law firms moving to another firm or a lawyer or two with lots of loyal clients making such a move. It happened at a firm where I worked. They lost their entire bankruptcy practice. But that's many established lawyers with many established clients with the prospect of more being added

    It's probably a sufficient plot device for your average TV lawyer show. But I have come to expect more from BCS (and in past seasons have gotten what I expected).
     
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  14. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    And what about the part where the grunts at the firm do all the work and she can be free to go to PD work as she pleases? That also seems unrealistic, for she'd certainly have to be a lot more involved than that.
     
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  15. EddieMann

    EddieMann I used to be a king...

    Location:
    Geneva, IL. USA.
    All true, but the guy DID try and hire her once already.
     
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  16. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Wasn't that just hiring her as an associate? Partner typically means a cut of the firm's profits. That's a big deal. I think it would have been more realistic for them to hire her as a senior associate (with partnership track) on the condition Mesa Verde agrees to use the new firm as its lawyers (with Kim as the lead associate, of course)
     
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  17. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Good one. I like it. :D

    It seems this season is failing for some and winning for others.

    I say this only because we all internalize things differently.

    @snowman872 has some very good points. Even though I'm enjoying this season immensely (trusting that it will pan out in greater context), sure I can find fault, but that's just the way I take certain things in.

    For instance, I like the scenes with Mike and Gus, but so much with both of them together. I like Nacho's story, because I feel that deep down he's a good person who just got lost in bad scene and he doesn't know how to get out (of course Nacho likes that dirty money a little too much, also). I don't care for Hector's nephews much, but Hector is great to watch.

    Remember, though, that Kim hasn't told S&C yes as of this moment. She still has to consult with Mesa Verde. It's only a gaff if they don't give her time to do it. It might just widen the rift between Kim and MV.

    Also, remember that Kim was being pursued by S&C pretty vigorously before. I got the feeling that they would take her even without MV. They we're going to make her a full partner with nothing but the clothes on her back.

    Bringing on Mesa Verde is probably a calculated risk on Kim's part. I hope they address it.

    But what do I know? Nothing. I like having lawyers weigh in on the show. :pleased:
     
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  18. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Very true. Partners are expected (by the other partners) to put in a lot of hours along with the lawyers working under him or (in this case) her. On a major case, it is quite typical (to the point of certainty) to see the partner in the office at 11:00 PM along with the support staff. Kim could find some time during the day to break away for her PD work, but all cases are not going to be so easy as beating up on a gullible prosecutor with a lame Miranda threat. At some point she'll have a two-week (or longer) criminal trial that's going to suck up weeks worth of firm resources (before, during and after the trial). And she and the assisting associates and paralegals will be drawing a salary with no billable time to show for it? I don't think so.
     
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  19. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    Kim is the last person that Jimmy cares about. In the opening scene flashback I think the biggest reason (or at least a very big reason) Jimmy became a lawyer is revealed. He wanted to relate to Kim. Which in turn really shows just how much his connection to Kim means to him and keeping whats left of Jimmy intact.

    After the hope of Wexler and McGill has seemingly closed, I think Jimmy has decided that he once again and possibly finally doesnt see the point in fighting his true nature any longer. That guy at the Pinata wharehouse? Thats pretty much Saul. That guy talking to Howard? Thats the same guy who told Walt to get his **** together also: Saul.

    While I realize that the lawyer stuff is inner'esting talk, I think the psychology of this series and character development momentum is brilliant. For me, thats where the meat lies. Not finding forrests of fault in the details of why something isnt plausible and not seeing the tangible trees of character intricacies.

    If I did the former with Breaking Bad, then it might as well have been a cartoon.

    Like Gus, I am patient and can easily see this going into a season 5. This season is a slow burn. Nothing real fun about it. Its almost painful at times to see where the characters are headed one inch at a time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
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  20. misterjones

    misterjones Smarter than the average bear.

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I don't remember that being a stated contingency. If that's how they play it, then we're back on the reality track (though I still don't see why Mesa Verde and the new firm would agree to Kim's arrangement).
     
  21. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Amen to this. That pretty much sums it up for me.
     
  22. Coppertop Tester

    Coppertop Tester Forum Resident

    When Jimmy was sitting in his car and started pounding on the steering wheel before going to confront those kids, it reminded me of Walt doing the same after his first confrontation with Tuco. That was when Walt became Heisenberg and this is when Jimmy became Saul.
     
  23. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    The show is turning into Rogue One for Breaking Bad. Which is *really* settling, considering how good the show has been in previous seasons, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think that this was the kind of thing we'd be getting with BCS before the first episode aired, and I still tuned in. It was just very pleasantly surprising that the show was able to be so much more than that, at least for awhile.

    Now it's turning into fodder for BB fanboys.
     
  24. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I think there will be a payoff to that storyline, I don't think all of the crew members will make it out that job alive once it's completed.
     
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  25. snowman872

    snowman872 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wilcox, AZ
    Quite possible. We already know how brutal the Cartel and Gus is. But what does that have to do with Jimmy/Saul? That would be a true payoff.
     
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