Dave Clark 5 Live

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by guest 4254, Jun 23, 2009.

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  1. guest 4254

    guest 4254 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Does anyone know whether the Dave Clark 5 actually played live during their concerts? I know their TV appearances were synched to their records, but I've always wondered if there was any audio or video of them actually playing live?
     
  2. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    There's at least one YouTube video, referenced in an earlier DC5 thread, in which they seem to be playing "Any Way You Want It" at least semi-live.

    As I recall, it was a weird hybrid of live and recorded...the big tip-off was Clark's drums, which sounded absolutely horrible, like some cheap knock-off set. Yet other parts of the performance sounded as if they were pre-recorded. And it wasn't the standard "singing live over completely recorded background" method most commonly used in those days.

    To my knowledge, this is the only performance that has surfaced in audio or video of the DC 5 playing at least somewhat live.
     
  3. davmar77

    davmar77 I'd rather be drummin'...

    Location:
    clifton park,ny
    saw them in 65. here's the flyer and my ticket stub. i remember it being quite live although i was much younger then. i probably wouldn't have thought about that twice.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Who cares about the specifics anyway? The looked good, had good songs, charted well and are still played on oldies radio. Sounds like an 800 batting average to me.

    Get the albums in clean mono back in print Dave will be batting 1000.
     
  5. QuestionMark?

    QuestionMark? 4TH N' GOAL

    Location:
    The End Zone
  6. WOW! I was living in West Hempstead when they played there. I had no idea....
    I think that was around the time of the East Coast Blackout.
     
  7. jgreen

    jgreen Well-Known Member

    Location:
    St. Louis,MO.
    I saw them in 1966 and they were great (and live). Clark chose to lip synk on TV in order for the audience to hear the actual record that he was promoting. Most of their hits had Mike Clark singing harmony with himself, wich could not be duplicated live. Get over it. Clark was selling records not trying to prove anything. Before making "Glad All Over" the group played American R+B on the U.S. Army base circuit. With all the great British bands at the time you had to be good to get those gigs. They were a great rockin' band when I saw them, and I was no kid, I was 18 and had seen The Beatles, Stones , Animals ect. IIRC Lenny Davidson sang Mike's harmony parts. They sounded just like the records and the audience responded in a Beatlemania type manner.
     
  8. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Of course they played live, thats how they made the reputation in the UK.

    On the records DC used session guys, but most everybody did in the UK at that time...you HAD to, because of the standard of quality the BBC and Radio Luxemborg had...your records had to sound professional or they wouldnt play them. I read somwhere that "Big Jim" Sullivan and James Page (yes, THAT Jimmy Page) had played on some 800 different songs in the studio by 1966. Around late '66 bands started playing on their own records, probably because that raw R&B sound was taking hold, and THAT style , the band members could play well enough.

    The DC5 toured America in 1964 and played LIVE at every concert. There was no "faking it" live in 1964!!!

    I'm pretty sure I read someplace that DC has a 35mm film in excellent quality of the DC5 playing live in America in '66. Thats something that should get released on Blu-ray.
     
  9. Mister Kite

    Mister Kite Uncle Obscure

    Location:
    Columbia, MO
    I also saw them in 1964-65(?) performing outdoors in a high school football stadium. This is the first "rock" concert I ever attended, but my recollection is that their performance was quite "live." Since you really couldn't hear much music over the screaming crowd though, it is hard to say for sure.
     
  10. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Didn't someone like Frankie Laine or Frankie Avalon get busted in the late 50's for doing mimed shows?
     
  11. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    You mean Mike Smith...and I'd like to know what your source is for this statement. I don't believe it to be true, but if you have something to back it up, please share it with us.


    Get over what? There being almost no evidence of the band performing live? No, I won't get over that under any circumstance, with any artist. I always thought that lip syncing on TV was one of the dumbest things anyone ever came up with...a terrible cheat of an artist's fans.

    I already have the record...I don't need to see singers flapping their gums and pretending to sing, guitarists playing guitars that aren't even plugged into anything pretending to play, and drummers waving their sticks but not making contact with their drums and cymbals. Maybe it did something for teenage girls to see their favorites doing this, but it sure did nothing for me.



    I've never doubted that the DC5 could cut it live, and have found accusations that they actually lip synced at concert appearances to be ludicrous. (Although how is it they "sounded just like the records," when you earlier said that their harmonies "could not be duplicated live"?)

    I just wish there were some recorded evidence of what they really sounded like. But I wish that for ANY of my favorite bands, not just the DC5. I eagerly seek out YouTube videos of my favorites...it's the one thing this otherwise moronic service is actually good for. But the minute it's obvious I'm looking at a lip sync, I move on to something else.
     
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  12. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Quote : But the minute it's obvious I'm looking at a lip sync, I move on to something else.

    >>>>Well, OK, but that DOES knock out about 98% of all the clips of 1960s Rock Bands on TV !!!
    They almost never played live. Not even The Ed Sullivan Show had them live all the time, there are many clips from 1963/4/5 where the bands are lip syncing...and at the very very end, the Ray Block orchestra plays a few notes as a segway to a "live" ending.

    And, jgreen is correct, on many of the hits Mike Smith overdubs a high harmony over his lead. Just listen to "Come Home" or "Try Too Hard" with headphones if you need proof.
     
  13. jgreen

    jgreen Well-Known Member

    Location:
    St. Louis,MO.
    A. There is no doubt that Mike Smith (sorry for the mistake) is singing the 2nd lead line on their records. Just listen closely.
    B. No one was more anti lip synking than I was, for the same reasons, but the constant accusations that it was done by the DC5 because they couldn't play, insinuating that they were a Monkees type band, is ridiculous. Clark had his reasons, bad TV sound, their use of reverb, Mike's double vocals ect. Basically, why bother?
    C. They DID sound just like their records, but, I imagine not exactly. Davidson's voice is not Mike Smith's (Huxley also sang harmony). But with the screaming teeny boppers and the pure excitement (I was in the middle of the crowd that had rushed the stage) any differences were negligible. The band's energy was strong and Mike's singing and stage presence among the all time greats. It was an unforgettable show. Pure hard driving rock and roll and a wild crowd.
     
  14. bRETT

    bRETT Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA

    If they were a "Monkees type band," that means they did indeed play live.
     
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  15. pjr114

    pjr114 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cheshire, CT, USA
    I opened for them at the Oakdale Theatre in Wallingford CT in 1967, when I was playing with the Bram Rigg Set. There's a little about that in the post below from January.

    They sounded very good and they were very live. Mike Smith was the best thing going in the band. He was a great R&B singer and it showed when they did an R&B medley.

    http://www.thetrickismusic.com/?p=270
     
  16. QuestionMark?

    QuestionMark? 4TH N' GOAL

    Location:
    The End Zone
    I have always believed that the DC5 played live. The absence of any live video is bewildering. They were so big in 64 thru 67 and played so many TV shows and live concerts that you would think that something is out there. You can find some live footage on just about any other major act from the 60's. Where is the DC5 footage? That's always been my only question.
     
  17. jgreen

    jgreen Well-Known Member

    Location:
    St. Louis,MO.
    I don't think it exists. Another group that seems to have no live videos is Paul Revere and The Raiders who put on a great, rockin' show live. I've found nothing on either band.
     
  18. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Remember that DC owns ALL the video rights to the band. I'm sure he has some truly live video / film in his vault (which I believe he stores at EMI London).
     
  19. PhilCohen

    PhilCohen Forum Resident

    By now, at this late date, Apple Corps are permitting Beatles remasters, Guns & Roses finally released "Chinese Democracy" & Neil Young finally permitted "Archives Vol.1" to be released.......but Dave Clark is still defiantly refusing to capitulate and open his vaults, and yet he thinks that he's a great businessman.
     
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  20. Mark

    Mark I Am Gort, Hear Me Roar Staff


    Me and my long time jones of keeping every ticket stub I have had since about '72 or so is extremely jealous. Man, is that cool. :righton:
     
  21. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    Your figure is exaggerated. As I said, the great thing about YouTube is finding some great instances of obviously live TV performances.

    Admittedly, the practice of playing live (or at least singing live over a previously recorded instrumental track, which was usually in itself different from the version on the actual record) was more prevalent in Europe than in the U.S. And certainly on most of the local or syndicated U.S. shows (e.g., Lloyd Thaxton, Upbeat, etc.) lip syncing prevailed.

    But depending on the show or band in question, many acts performed live or semi-live on the two dominant rock 'n' roll network shows of the 60s, Shindig and Hullabaloo.


    I've also heard this positively awful device used after bands had just finished performing live. Whoever thought it was a good idea should have been shot.

    I don't have a tally of every musical performance ever shown on Ed Sullivan, so I don't know whether live or lip-synced performances were dominant. But there were certainly plenty of live ones.


    Much depends on one's definition of terms. JGreen's statement was "Most of their hits had Mike Clark singing harmony with himself, wich could not be duplicated live." This is incorrect on the face of it, as there are more Dave Clark Five hits that feature a single, non-harmonized lead vocal line than there are lead lines with a second harmony.

    And some of the ones that do feature harmonies on the lead line (as opposed to "call and response" backing vocals) I would indeed like to take a close listen to. These harmonies can be a bit...unusual (e.g. "Any Way You Want It," "Everybody Knows [I Still Love You]").

    The harmony vocals tend to jump all over the place from register to register...in other words, they don't seem to be the kind of harmonies a skilled singer such as Smith would choose on his own, and I hear different vocal textures among them. I always figured it was some kind of weird blend they had come up with together.
     
  22. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    See my previous post.


    As I've said, I agree, and always have, that the accusations are ridiculous. In the previous thread, I made the exact same statement that you did about their lucrative pre-fame career playing at U.S. military bases. You can't continue to do that if you suck.

    But I would answer the question "Why bother?" by saying "So you can be honest with your fans." Knowing what we know of Clark, I think his primary motivation was one of absolute control, which is obviously extremely important to him. No chance of bum notes or things going wrong technically if you lip sync. But it's still such a cheat.

    One more thing -- I used to defend Clark against accusations that studio drummers performed on their records. I had what I felt was a good reason for doing so...the fact that he submitted to an interview with Max Weinberg for the latter's book The Big Beat: Conversations with Rock's Great Drummers many years ago.

    There were many technical questions directed specifically at "Clark's" drumming style in the course of the interview, and I wondered why someone who would obviously have to lie to answer those questions would say yes to being interviewed in the first place, when he could simply graciously decline.

    But now, I've come to believe that it must be true that Clark did not drum on many or any of the band's hits. And it was the video under discussion earlier (which has been taken off of YouTube, as noted) that convinced me as much as anything. The sound of Clark's drums was just so awful, and his playing style so stiff and unskilled looking, that I had to reluctantly concede the point that it probably really was Bobby Graham all along.

    A pity. Certainly DC5 records were notable as being among the first to really bring the drums to the forefront.



    No argument from me that Mike Smith was a dynamic singer. I was privileged to see him perform with Rock Engine at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame just a few months before his tragic accident.

    In the same Max Weinberg interview, Dave Clark said that Smith could have been regarded as one of the truly great rock 'n' roll singers, but he wasn't particularly comfortable with the front man role, and was just too self-effacing to go after what he could have rightfully claimed.
     
  23. John DeAngelis

    John DeAngelis Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Pardon?
     
  24. bRETT

    bRETT Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    The Raiders on Hullabaloo were live, yes?
     
  25. Vivaldinization

    Vivaldinization Active Member

    But at least the Raiders have live albums out that are unambiguously live. I don't think the DC5 had those, did they?
     
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