Your List of the Top 10 Musicians who Matter Most in Rock History?

Go further back... Pierre Schaeffer

 

You're absolutely correct, they should have made my list but somehow I forgot about them. Perhaps Kraftwerk are even "invisible" to me, since they foresaw so much of the music that followed from their work that it might even seem like they've always been here. But, of course, they haven't, and they are great innovators who have changed the face of popular music.

 

Music progresses and what Kraftwerk did was different than Pierre Schaeffer.

 

Disagree, fine with me - but the Beatles really took what Berry/Holly/Presley invented and took it further with Martin. No Martin, No Berry, No Holly, No Presley = no Beatles. Again without those four, there are no Beatles.

 

Not the same at all -- Kraftwerk incorporated the rock and funk elements that were truly influential for other artists. I'd also argue that Stockhausen, Cage, and Pierre Henry eclipsed Schaeffer's influence on rock/pop musicians who drew from that set of ideas.

 

The Beatles were a fusion of melody, harmony, and studio experimentation. Which is totally different than what their 50's mentors were doing. "Tomorrow Never Knows" for example is based on the Beatles experimenting with other genres.
Without the Beatles songwriting there is nothing for George Martin to work with.

 

But we're talking about "who matter most in rock history" not who is most talented. And could Colonel Tom Parker have taken any good looking young man who could sing and make an Elvis out of him? I'll agree that Buddy Holly was more musically talented than Elvis, but Elvis is what inspired Buddy to become a rocker.

 

...yes I agree Schaeffer is very important - I have the excellent "Symphonie pour un homme seul" on CD. Also Stockhausen surely deserves a mention. However, these avant garde artists were heard by a fairly limited audience compared to Kraftwerk who really helped make electronic music popular. Kraftwerk certainly were not the first but arguably were the most important electronic artists.

 

Les Paul
Dave Davies
Elvis
John
Paul
Ringo
James Brown
Berry Gordy
Dylan
Shaggs

 

In a word, no.

Totally different? Have you really listened to these artists? The foundation of the Beatles is embedded with the DNA of the three mentioned... teaming them up with George Martin is the key. If you don't believe, just listen to the Decca tapes, same band, same songs, different producer.

 

No Murry Wilson, no Phil Spector, no Four Freshmen, no dust bowl = no Beach Boys.

 

Ballsy choice, my friend, and I'm inclined to agree with you, even though they didn't crack my Top 10. I assume that you may subsequently garner the requisite grunting from the same stratum in this forum that customarily bitches about how Yoko Ono, Jandek, Beefheart, Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music", John Cage, et al. aren't "music".

 

Of course I have listened to these artists. That does not mean the Beatles did not devolop their own sound. From the start Beatles were more complicated then their mentors Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, and their friends the Rolling Stones. The Beatles would use Bridge: a song's contrasting section [sometimes called the ‘middle-eight', regardless of the number of actual bars], often beginning in an area other than tonic and usually leading to a dominant retransition. They incorporated classic and world music elements to their songs (which helped the development of prog-rock and baroque pop and art rock. They experimented in the use of rare metric patterns and song structures (which helped the development of prog-rock. Songs like "Norwegian Wood" would include modes like Mixolydiaon and Dorian Modes in one song. What does this have to with Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly?

You are comparing band in 1962 to 1965. Have you ever heard of a band improving and getting better. Have you heard what Pink Floyd sounded in 1965? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4KHhbuiwAo

 

Paul McCartney
John Lennon
Phil Spector
Tony Iommi
Brian Wilson
Pete Townshend
Keith Moon
Chuck Schuldiner
Dave Grave
Black Francis

 

I don't really want to engage with you about this, but are you really maintaining that the Beatles' output circa their first album was more sophisticated than the music that Buddy Holly released at the end of his career? (yes, I know that other artists were involved in BH's output, but, as such, certainly you need to acknowledge George Martin's contribution to the early Beatles records)

 

I would argue that Joy Division were very important (certainly in the UK).

I remember the legendary DJ John Peel saying that after the death of Ian Curtis for the next few years - something like 9 out of 10 tapes sent to him sounded like Joy Division. Then of course over the last few years we have had a glut of Joy Division soundalikes.

 

True.

 

I have never not acknowledged George Martin's contribution but some want to give a majority credit to George Martin are being ridiculous.

 

George Martin gives the catalyst to the Beatles becoming what they were to become. No George Martin, no Beatles - if you think the first two Beatles albums are more sophisticated than what Berry and Holly had been doing at the end of Holly's life and up to Berry's time in jail, you should probably go relisten. Nobody is denying that a band can grow... but the Beatles would have grown more like the DC5 without Martin, and Pink FLyodd wouldn't have happened at all.

 

Agree with you re: JD's influence. Also curious as to what Peel would posit re: the influence of The Fall, who were his favorite band. No Fall = no Nirvana, Pavement, Sonic Youth, Pixies, Fat Boy Slim, Pulp, and many others.

 

I can't do McGuinn, and I'm not sure about Fats Domino. How about swapping those two out for Jerry Lee Lewis and Sly Stone?

 

Besides being one of the better guitar players ever, just on the sheer amount of music produced, how could Jerry Garcia be left out of everyone's list so far? The man was a machine for twenty years.

 

Without seeing any other lists...and only in the order they came to mind:

1. Paul McCartney
2. Jimmy Page
3. Jimi Hendrix
4. Chuck Berry
5. Les Paul
6. Eric Clapton
7. John Bonham
8. Keith Richards
9. Pete Townshend
10. John Lennon

 

Agreed, my friend. No Beatles raw talent and profound songwriting ability (ahem - A Hard Day's Night), no successful band, genius producer or no.

 

Superlative musician, agreed, with a prodigious output, but little influence outside of the jam band circuit. I'd posit two of his collaborators, David Grisman and Jorma Kaukonen, as well as Roger McGuinn and Gram Parsons, as more salient influences re: roots/Americana music's incorporation into rock/pop.