Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion - "No One Cares" (1959 LP)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Mar 27, 2010.

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  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  2. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Under-rated album I agree. Huh I didn't know about the 9-sec extension. The general pattern is more or less according to expectation. ;) These reviews are fascinating to me. :)
     
  3. stevelucille

    stevelucille Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    Great job! as always Matt!

    I never noticed the "bonus music" section before. Fascinating! It must of come from a different take??? Or edited out of the original?
     
  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    To my knowledge, the take was edited in the original mix, which was all that ever got used for 31 years. The song was remixed for the 1990 3-CD THE CAPITOL YEARS set, with the edit not performed, either intentionally or via an oversight. The following year, Larry Walsh remixed the album for single-disc CD release, and re-created the edit (somewhat sloppily, as there's a slight tick).

    Matt
     
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  5. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Thanks again, Matt!!! I was just about to bug you about doing your next FS-Capitol album analysis.

    But I would disagree about where NOC ranks among the FS-Jenkins concept collaborations. I think that the dreadfully soupy "Stormy Weather" puts the album behind Where Are You?, All Alone, She Shot Me Down and, of course, September of My Years.

    The other tracks on the album are, admittedly, uniformly remarkable. But "Stormy" is such a clunker....
     
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  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Well, to each his own, of course, but I never said it ranked ahead any of those except (by time-line implication) ALL ALONE. All I said was:

    That first sentence -- which is completely uncritical -- refers to the Capitol release schedule for Sinatra from 1954-1959, and the second sentence only covers 1959-1965.

    Matt
     
  7. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
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    Yes, it always sticks out for me too.

    Sodden arrangement, and Sinatra sounds like he's having trouble finding the breath to sustain the notes and/or the tessitura sits too high for him at that point. The Columbia version with Axel Stordahl is better.

    There's some gems on the album though. A Cottage For Sale ranks up there with the best of any of the Capitol recordings.
     
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  8. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    No slur on your taste--which is impeccable--implied, Matt. Sorry for any misunderstanding. "Charmaine" on AA is pretty bad too, just, to my mind, not so poor as "Stormy" on NOC. I'm open to disagreement!

    Keep up the wonderful work. A great service to us all!
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Not a problem. ....and I've never been told my taste is impeccable before, so I'll have to tell my wife that next time I want to watch Spongebob Squarepants when nobody else is home! I'll tell you, though, that I'm glad Sinatra never reached "tier 3" Gordon Jenkins depression. I'm not sure how he would have done with material like "Where Did Everyone Go."
     
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  10. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    How would he have done? Great. :)
     
  11. shicorp

    shicorp Senior Member

    Location:
    Austria
    Many thanks for the great work, Matt. As always appreciated. The one thing I've always wondered about is the presence of "The One I Love" on ALL CD re-issues of this album. Has this song been on the original mono/stereo pressings of this album? The Sinatra Archive's discography says that it was first issued on the "Sinatra Like Never Before". Furthermore, the versions available on "The Capitol Years" and the "No One Cares" CD seem to be alternate takes. Will have to check if the version on the British CD is any different from the US counterparts...
     
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  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The version of "The One I Love" on the British CDs (it's on TWO discs in The Capitol Years 21-CD box), is different than on the US CDs. It contains the intercut which changes "the hands I HELD belong to somebody else" to "the hands I HOLD." That's the edit which was first released on the LIKE NEVER BEFORE LP but seems to have been overlooked on the US CD remixes.

    (You may remember this post at the SFF, Stefan. ;))
     
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  13. shicorp

    shicorp Senior Member

    Location:
    Austria
    Many thanks for the clarification, Bob - back then and now;) It still seems an odd choice that the track has been restored on the British box set - considering that the box set is true to the original LP sequences in all other cases (even missing quintessential recordings from the Capitol era like the soundtracks from "High Society" and "Pal Joey").

    It seems we've reached the time when you can find out more about yourself in the internet than you know yourself;)
     
  14. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    If the track on the EMI set was from their tapes, the only version they have should be with the intercut since a dub from the corrected tape is what Capitol would have sent them back then.
     
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  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    As many of you know, the Sinatra legal team came after me for the audio samples on the old comparison site I had been working on. (I shouldn't say "I." It was really a team effort with the help of many SH.TV members; I was merely the conduit; my site the result of the shared effort.)

    I have decided to march forward with a site that includes zero audio samples:

    http://web.me.com/mlutthans/Site_65/1959_-_No_One_Cares_2.html

    The gents who had submitted clips have access to said audio content. (Many of us Sinatra nuts have purchased new copies of the albums multiple times, so we have lots of stuff on hand! Perhaps you can relate!) I'm sorry that I can't share the pertinent audio with the "public at large," but at least the discussion-inducing text is visible at the link above, and you can also view comments here from "the contributors" as they choose to chime in.

    Discuss away!

    Matt
     
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  16. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Thank you Matt! Great to see you back in business, if only in a qualified fashion.

    I've enjoyed the EMI box version of this album very much. But I'm very curious to hear the original mono first hand.
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Although I'm not especially fond of the unnatural stereo separation on the stereo versions due to the way it's miked and tracked, the mono seems a little over-wet to me....but it's not bad. I really don't think there's a "bad" version of this title, except (you guessed it) the currently-available domestic CD release, mastered by Bob Norberg.

    Matt
     
  18. stevelucille

    stevelucille Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    Hurrah!
    Hallelujah!

    etc. etc.

    Great to have these pages back even in limited form. I sure have missed them!

    The striking thing about the No One Cares samples seems to be the last thing Matt mentions:

    How many different albums have we looked at where the same thing is true? Most of them? Pretty sorry state of affairs for some of the most important pop music ever made.

    Another surprise (for me at least) is how well the 21 CD British box set holds up. Consistently near the top.

    Thanks once again for all your hard work Matt. It's great to have you back!
     
  19. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    Glad the pages (even sans samples) are back up. As usual, adding important new insight and information on these recordings.:thumbsup:

    I've always liked the Walsh CD. Got nice tone, one of the best of the original CD series.
     
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  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    What struck me about this particular album is that there was 1.) Not a genuine clunker in the bunch, except Norberg; and 2.) Not one that strongly stood out as the "go to" version. With almost all of the earlier mono-only LPs, there were the "reverb added" versions (often on LP and CD) that should be avoided. With the 10" LPs, there were the jumbled-running-order 12" versions to avoid. Some were Duophonicified. WHERE ARE YOU was missing a track in stereo and the mono was soupy. COME FLY WITH ME really only had (to my ears) one truly "best" version in stereo, and a so-so mono mix; COME DANCE WITH ME had only two good stereo pressings -- and none until about 1973! -- and a BAD mono mix. SINGS FOR ONLY THE LONELY cries out for stereo, IMO, but in 52 years there has only been ONE release (1983 MFSL) with all songs in stereo AND in the right running order that used the original stereo mixes with the cool little "effects." Then along comes NO ONE CARES, and (essentially) they all sound between about an 8.5 and a 10 on a curved 1 to 10 scale, except that clunker of a Norberg issue.

    Greg mentioned the Walsh CD. Yep, that's a goodie. I/We tend to complain when things get "panned in" during a stereo remix, i.e., the latest Sinatra/Jobim CD remix (which, in an odd bit of irony, is also a Walsh remix). Well, NO ONE CARES has been mildly collapsed or panned in from day one in stereo, and the Walsh remix is the only one to UN-collapse the mix, and there's an openness that emerges anew as a result vis a vis all the other released stereo versions. Having said that, the wide mix also causes some odd-but-mild balance issues, but (as I mentioned on the site) I don't think it's better or worse, just different, and very nice in its own way.

    Edit: Up next will be NICE 'N' EASY. So far I have:
    British Box CD
    Norberg CD
    first press (points) N2 mono
    Argentina Grey Label (actually called Romantico y Sonador) made with US stampers (N6)
    UK reissue (Music For Pleasure) (alternate Cover)
    MFSL 1983 LP (box set version)
    Walsh CD 1991
    Yellow-label SM series (mines a little "loved," so I wouldn't mind having a nicer copy)
    1984 British "Alan Dell" series
    MFSL CD

    Tracks I plan to delve into: "How Deep is the Ocean" and "I've Got a Crush on You." Please contact me if you can help out. I'd especially like to track down: Original pressings, MFSL 1980's single-disc (non-box-set), 2008 (?) MFSL LP, foreign pressings, reel-to-reel.

    Thanks,
    Matt
     
  21. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Matt, Don't forget to mention in passing the alt. take of "Nice 'n' Easy" (yuchhh!) which showed up in Romance: Songs from the Heart a few years ago.
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Nope, and I'll also be making an addendum to NO ONE CARES to look at the assorted releases of THE ONE I LOVE.

    Matt
     
  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    ^^^The best song (not) on the album, IMO!

    Matt
     
  24. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I really enjoy the addition of "The One I Love" on the UK box edition of "No One Cares" it's a wonderful version, as much as like the "I Remember Tommy" faster version the slower version in the UK box just nails it for me, but I never realised there was another edit of the song available.
     
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I had "The One I Love" on the Capitol "Rare Sinatra" set from the UK, and then when I got THE CAPITOL YEARS 3-disc set, I was stunned to here the word "held" in there. Talk about an ear-catcher!

    Matt
     
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