Head of A&M's A&R: "Don't give us any more [rock] bands"

Record companies have nobody to blame but themselves for not being able to sell rock. Every rock album in the last ten years gas pretty been been a couple singles, usually in tracks 1-3, and a bunch of throwaways that their produce the exact same way as the rest of the album so there is no variety whatsoever. They tried to manufacture rock music according to the same rules that they make pop music with. That merely turned off all the people who are actually into rock music for what it is.

If the record companies weren't so focused on singles and actually encouraged bands to make great albums, maybe the music industry wouldn't have collapsed when it became so easy for people to download the one song that was the only good thing an artist ever did and not overpay for the filler.

 

That's okay.

I'll just sit back and enjoy the new releases of Croweology and Mulenium

 

I see you're from Belgium, which explains your very different perspective. I was in college in the late 80s and early 90s and don't recall much electronic music at all. The big divide I remember was between guitar based hair metal and guitar based "college" music popular with the hipsters. Guns and Roses, grunge and Metallica actually managed to appeal to both camps.

There might have been some electronic stuff on bigger campuses with college radio stations and in the hipper urban areas, but it never caught on with the American mainstream (unless you include it's incorporation into rap and hip-hop through sampling).

 

Very good point.

 

This is absolutely true. I went to college in the Boston area from 1988 - 1992, and thanks to a thriving local music/radio scene there was a broad exposure to all sorts of music. But electronic music wasn't very big; it was still guitar based indie/mainstream rock or Top 40, really. Big song on campus in the spring of '91? "I Touch Myself" by the Divinyls. Oy.

 

Yep. I still like it, but it's quickly on its way to becoming the way I saw my grandfather's big band music back in the 70's and 80's.

 

The thing about rock music is that when it becomes popular, it tends to eat itself, almost devolving into a sort of self-parody. Early Beatles begot Herman's Hermits and--dare I say!--the Monkees. Nirvana and Pearl Jam spawned Candlebox and Bush. That's not to say that these "imitators" weren't good, or even that they were necessarily inferior to the originals (although I think in these examples, they were). But when the coattail riders start to outnumber the trailblazers, it dilutes the genre and audiences seek out something new.

I don't believe grunge is to blame--the early 90s are my favorite musical period actually--the blame lies in the fact that there really don't seem to be any major acts providing a new yet still traditional form of rock music (as in, guitars, bass, drums--the basics). I'm sure that elusive sound is out there just waiting for someone to uncover or create it...but it just hasn't happened yet unfortunately. And as a result, we've been subjected to the longest drought of popular rock music ever experienced.

 

+1

 

Honestly, I think rock music has been on its way out since the mid-90s.
And deservedly so.
"Proper" rock music (=various sorts of crossovers and distant relationships are not taken into account) is by definition something sounding more or less like the blueprint Chuck Berry and the Stones lined out some 60 and 50 years ago, respectively.
It can't be mainstream forever, things have to move on.
IMHO people are eager to hear and create music that's new, and it's only natural.

 

Guns N Roses (Appetite For Destruction), Aerosmith (Pump) and Alice Cooper (Trash) were big over here too. From the hip hop side, only De La Soul and Double Troube (feat. The Rebel MC) had some top 10 hits in that era. B52's (Love Shack) and The Cure (Never Enough) were big hits too

Electronic music was off course "new" and fresh", and some clubs were open 3 - 4 days in the week, clubbers from all over Europe.

Mainstream classics:
Rhythm Device - Acid Rock

A Split Second - Flesh

New Beat & Acid House - Newsfacts on TV

American import (by the legendary Kevin "Master Reese" Saunderson from Detroit, a God in Belgium)
Inner City - Good Life featuring the amazing Paris Grey.

Electronic music is OK, as long as the "American major guys" stay away. Even Snoop Dogg, N.e.r.d. and Flo Rida are now want to produce electronic music with the baddest European producers like David Guetta ...
And P Diddy did already a few ones a couple of years ago with DJ Hell and Felix Da Housecat.

"I Touch Myself" was a radio hit, but never got in the charts.
There's even a Belgian cover version: Scala - I Touch Myself

Those guys made a beautiful "piano 4 hands" interpretation on Brahms' "Hungarian Dances". Released on sacd. Buy it, because it's almost everywhere out of print: SACD.net Link

 

How could you not like a song with a hot red head writhing around and cooing about auto erotic ecstacy?

 

Even if electronic music becomes the next big thing in the USA. There will still be an alternative scene. Over here it always existed, even in the 90s when electronic took completely over the charts (about 90% of the music)

Not everyone likes electronic music. Singles charts were full of dance music, but not many dance artists release full albums. So the album charts will still contain rockalbums, indie, alternative,...

The underground electronic acts had some timeless "hits" (many masterpieces late 80s and 90s) that stood the test of time, but everybody forgot the commercial dance tracks that went number 1. Only if radiochannels make a top 100 of most annoying tracks of all time, they still play them

If you see the Belgian backcatalogue Singles sales chart off all time (weekly), hardly any dance singles to find. It's all rock, alternative, indie, pop,...

And artists like Eminem laughs at techno-artists. Well, most of the electronic artists don't want to get signed to major labels and do their own thing (and are gaining loads of money with it all around the globe, think James Holden, Guy Gerber, Derrick May) without any promotion.

While those so called "gangsta hip-hop stars" are slaves of their record label and even have to make duets with David Guetta (Flo-Rida) and Justin Bieber (Ludacris). Very gangsta Even Snoop Dogg still does a duet with Katy Perry, thought he would be rich, big and famous enough right now to say "No Thank You" at the labelmanagers. Another prove how fake the "majority" of the whole R&B/hiphop scene is in the US. I don't see European hiphop artist work together with that kind of "stars".

Read this charts carefully, and read my conclusions afterwards (I'm afraid the American Labelmanagers don't know what they're talking about). Belgian charts (we grew up with electronic), but that doesn't matter, it's all about the conclusion at the end.

This week's official backcatalogue sales/download charts:

chart + total weeks in the list (since beginning of the chart, songs have to be older than 1 or 1,5 year)

01 Coldplay - Viva La Vida (weeks: 6)
02 Faithless - God Is A DJ (weeks: 45)
03 The Cranberries - Zombie (weeks: 3)
04 Daan - Swedish Designer Drugs (weeks: 47)
05 Laurent Wolf - No Stress (weeks: 15)
06 Amy MacDonald - This Is The Life (weeks: 15)
07 Snow Patrol - Chasing Cars (weeks: 65)
08 Jason Mraz - I'm Yours (weeks: 11)
09 The Black Eyed Peas - Pump It (weeks: 25)
10 MIKA - Relax (Take It Easy) (weeks: 30)
11 Editors - An End Has A Start (weeks: 9)
12 Arsenal - Lotuk (weeks: 3)
13 The White Stripes - 7 Nation Army (weeks: 38)
14 ERA - Ameno (weeks: 1)
15 Editors - Smokers Outside The Hospital Room (weeks: 2)
16 Damien Rice - 9 Crimes (weeks: 39)
17 Survivor - Eye Of The Tiger (weeks: 27)
18 Shakira - Whenever Wherever (weeks: 3)
19 Buena Vista Social Club - Chan Chan (At Carnegie Hall) (weeks: 3)
20 Metallica - Nothing Else Matters (weeks: 69)
21 U2 - One (weeks: 10)
22 Michael Jackson - Beat It (weeks: 61)
23 The Verve - Bitter Sweet Symphony (weeks: 11)
24 Led Zeppelin - Stairway To Heaven (weeks: 18)
25 Green Day - Basket Case (weeks: 8)

This week's top 75 album sales (only excluded a few local dutch/french varieté singers):
01 Eminem - Recovery
02 Florence + the Machine - Lungs
03 Arcade Fire - The Suburbs (Highest Entry)
04 Mumford & Sons - Sigh No More
05 Lady Gaga - The Fame Monster
06 The Black Eyed Peas - The E.N.D.
07 David Guetta - One Love
08 Enrique Iglesias - Euphoria
09 Muse - The Resistance
10 Amy MacDonald - A Curious Thing
11 Foo Fighters - Greatest Hits
12 Absynthe Minded - Absynthe Minded
13 The National - High Violet
14 Faithless - The Dance
15 M.I.A. - Maya
16 Tom Jones - Praise & Blame
17 AC/DC - Iron Man 2 Soundtrack
18 The XX - The XX
19 The Black Keys - Brothers
20 Lady GaGa - The Remix
21 Pieter Embrechts & The New Radio Kings - Time Is A Thief
22 Kylie Minogue - Aphrodite
23 Michael Jackson - This Is It Soundtrack
24 Katie Melua - The House
25 Jack Johnson - To The Sea
26 Sting - Symphonicities
27 Various Artists - Twilight Eclipse Soundtrack
28 Snow Patrol - Up To Now
29 AnnaGrace - Ready To Dare
30 Miley Cyrus - Can't Be Tamed
31 Perfume Genius - Learning
32 Justin Bieber - My Worlds
33 The Black Box Revelation - Silver Threats
34 Vampire Weekend - Contra
35 K's Choice - Echo Mountain
36 Tiësto - Magikal Journey (The Hits Collection 98-08)
37 Them Crooked Vultures - Them Crooked Vultures
38 The Van Jets - Cat Fit Fury!
39 Rihanna - Rated R
40 Various Artists - Step Up 3D Soundtrack
41 Admiral Freebee - The Honey And The Knife
42 Tired Pony - The Place We Ran From
43 Oasis - Time Flies ... 1994-2009
44 Das Pop - Das Pop
45 Balthazar - Applause
46 Channel Zero - Live at the Ancienne Belgique
47 Scala & Kolacny Brothers - Circle
48 Vaya Con Dios - Come On Est Venu
49 Netsky - Netsky
50 Christina Aguilera - Bionic
51 José James & Jeff Neve - For All We Know
52 The Rolling Stones - Exile On Main Street (Limited Deluxe Edition)
53 Tom Helsen - The Truth About That Girl And Me
54 Norah Jones - The Fall
55 Hans Zimmer - Inception Soundtrack
56 Korn - III (Remember Who You Are)
57 The Chemical Brothers - Further
58 Alicia Keys - The Element Of Freedom
59 Selena Gomez & The Scene - Kiss & Tell
60 Jamie Lidell - Compass
61 Arid - Under The Cold Street Lights
62 The Magic Numbers - The Runaway
63 Gotan Project - Tango 3.0
64 Danger Mouse and Sparklehorse - Dark Night Of The Soul
65 Sheryl Crow - 100 Miles From Memphis
66 Paramore - Brand New Eyes
67 Michael Bublé - Crazy Love
68 Mintzkov - Rising Sun, Setting Sun
69 Avi Buffalo - Avi Buffalo
70 Jimi Hendrix Experience - Exerience Hendrix (The Best Of)
71 Kelis - Flesh Tone
72 Trentemoller - Into The Great Wide Yonder
73 The Drums - The Drums
74 Life Of Agony - 20 Years Strong (River Runs Red: Live In Brussels)
75 Queen - Absolute Greatest


What do we learn:
In short term "mainstream dance music" works, but 2 years later no one reminds the tracks. Except some alternative + festival dance tracks (Lindstrom, Trentemoller, Underworld, Booka Shade, Chemical Brothers, Daft Punk, Boys Noize, Tiga, Faithless,...)

Singles charts are full of dance, but you see hardly any of those artists in "Album Charts". Mainstream "dance albums" don't sell except for names: Guetta, Tiesto and some Belgian dance acts as Lasgo, Anna Grace,... (in the Album top 100 you can count "dance albums" easily on 2 hands, sometimes even 1 hand)

Singles sales: not interesting for record companies
Album sales + backcatalogue sales: interesting for record companies

 

What the biggest of the big of the older hip-hop artists here do isn't really representative of the whole scene. I think you're making too much of a sweeping generalization there, and underestimating the breadth and depth of the hip-hop scene in this country.

It's great to get your perspective from Belgium, but if you travel from coast to coast in this country, major urban centers to rural areas, you'll find an amazing variety of musical tastes and talents. What sells big is only part of the story.

 

Yes it was a sad 15 minutes!!!!!!!!!!

 

I see. Well I can play like that, and I love it. That is the reason I started playing, because of LA bands. I miss the 80s.

 

I think the rumors of Rock's death are greatly exaggerated. There are still kids buying their first guitar and bashing out three-chord songs in the garage with their friends.

I encounter plenty of young people who don't like Rap or Electronica or Idol-Pop at all, so the hegemony of these non-rock music formats is far from universal.

 

Larry Pressler's 1996 Telecommunications act, you mean. McCain was actually one of five Senators, and the only Republican, who opposed it.

 

Rock will never die.

Over here "the youth" are listening to rock, electronic and hiphop. They just pick up the good titles in every genre.

Festivals program rock, electronic and hiphop.

We had also the Rock vs Electronic war, but that was 25 years ago at the end of the 80s and early 90s.

Popularity of genres varies from year to year (depending of what the "big names" have to offer + some new artist breakthroughs).

 

Yep....one great rock record out of nowhere, and it's on again.

 

a lot of people still like AC/DC (Bon Scott era a guilty pleasure of mine, as well) - You would think most people would get tired of this stuff, but it has that "real rock" quality that "new" music just does'nt provide. When you want to "rock out", electronic music (or whatever they call it) just won't do.

 

In a way I'm glad mainstream rock is on the way out. 98% of it is so generic and everybody copies everyone else.
Every once in a while I turn on the radio at work and I end up shutting it off cause I still hear the same cheesy stuff over and over. Hopefully they will all drop offthe face of the earth and true rock music can once again re-emerge with some inventive,original bands and establish a better reputation.

 

But will the radio stations play them?

 

Good call. I think rock radio hurts rock more than anything else. Rock stations are so comfortable playing blandness like Nickelback and Daughtry (at least here in Louisville) that every time a new rock or alt band comes out with a lot of fanfare, the stations still won't budge if it means they might lose a Nickelback fan (which I find to be a crock. Nickelback belong on alt radio today as much as Bon Jovi belonged on alt station in 1987). I live in Louisville and our media seriously ejaculates over My Morning Jacket, who are so big here they're playing a 30,000 seat arena that The Eagles and Justin Bieber are playing at, but even being hometown heroes, the rock stations here are so obsessed with playing their bland white track "rock" bands like Nickelback and Daughtry that they won't even play them, only the AAA station will go there.

Rock radio needs a makeover and fast, people complained about how dire it was pre-Nevermind but I would take what was big on rock stations in 90-91 over todays junk any day. Rock stations are so comfortable playing bland adult contemporary that they won't take a risk and play any actual rock or alternative music to come along, you have to go to the AAA stations to hear that, and not enough people listen to those sadly.

 

If they are paid to, like they're being paid to play the crap they play now.

 

There should be "National Radio Stations" in the US, financially supported by the US Government.

In most European countries we have them.

The government "controls" the diversity of music on the stations (less influence by record labels).

e.g.

Radio 1: news + classic pop & rock artists + new music in the same style + Crowded House, Coldplay, Arcade Fire, Avi Buffalo, Fleet Foxes, Steely Dan, Elvis Costello,... etc.

Radio 2: classics pop & rock from 60-70-80-90 and some new music. But the more "contemporary" stuff.

Studio Brussel: alternative, indie, electropop, electronic, some classics, little bit of hiphop and r&b but not that much

Klara: Classical, Jazz, World

The government watches that the influence of the big labels (Sony, Universal,...) isn't getting too big (there are commercial stations for that), and that "local bands" and "independents" got played. E.g. 30% of the music must be Belgian, etc.


And it works ... There are only "2 commercial" stations that have some listeners. The majority of the people listens still to the "national radios".