33 1/3 vs. 45 rpm

http://www.musicmattersjazz.com/sound.html#Why

 

There one or two records with one track per side, one side cut at 33 RPM and the other cut at 45 RPM. Listening to those is a good way to test how much of a difference the speed makes. Two examples off the top of my head are Dusty Springfield's The Look of Love, and Bill Henderson's Send in the Clowns.

 

Do you have to adjust anti-skate setting when playing a 45 lp?

 

Any mid-level TT or nice aftermarket arm will track them just fine if set up properly, not sure how a cheap TT would handle them though. The arm geometry should keep the needle nicely in the groove just like at 33 1/3. A pivot arm will put a tad more pressure on the outside groove at the beginning of the Lp and the inner towards the end, nature of the beast.

Unless you have a Rockport, tangient trackers bang around more than most folks know.

 

Albums at 45 RPM have the advantage not only of the higher speed but almost all are spread over more than one single disc. That alone has a huge advantage of keeping more of the musical grooves in the better sounding outer groove area. Less compromise and inner groove treble loss and distortion.
Many ive seen dont run the music way in towards the middle, as using 2 discs instead of 1, gives double the potential groove real estate, but only about 1.5 times as much more groove space taken up relative to the higher rotational speed.

 

Thats an interesting comment. Ive noticed surface noise to be not so much increased but at a different frequency range.

Im not sure the exact reason but when ive played even 16 RPM discs, the sound of the surface noise seems to shift towards a lower frequency.

 

Makes sense to me. Dust & scratches are the same regardless af the rpm. Same physical impression will sound higher pitched at higher rotations. Same with surface noise.

 

All my 45rpm 12" albums are the best sounding in my collection.

 

I think 45rpm sounds better, but having to flip any 60 minute album ever 2-3 tracks doesn't make it worth it to me.

 

What? No Man-servant? How do you get through your day?

 

MODERATOR COMMENT: Post moved from discussion of Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely 60th anniversary release:

It may be debatable as to what people prefer due to convenience etc but the sound quality improvements arent debatable. The physics are facts.

Sorry to go off topic.

 

MODERATOR COMMENT: Post moved from discussion of Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely 60th anniversary release:

Hehe, well 4 sides of 15mins at 33rpm which it currently is, that's not going to change how often you change the sides in this case - 45rpm however would have meant increased dynamics so I don't understand why they couldn't have cut these at 45rpm...

 

Maybe higher costs are involved with this process and production?

 

MODERATOR COMMENT: Post moved from discussion of Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely 60th anniversary release:

Possibly, but it's no excuse - I've just noticed that this release is the original 12 track version and not the 14 track version that came much later, so that means this album clocks in at around 54 minutes, even less reason for it to have been cut at 33rpm considering it is spread across 4 sides - so that's 3 tracks per side folks!

 

There are mechanical advantages and disadvantages at 45 rpm vs. 33-1/3 rpm.

 

Not sure if this was mentioned yet. But The Band new remixed 2 LP set on black vinyl not the pricey pink they were also on Capitol like this Frank LP although now it's Universal but anyway The Band LP was pressed at 45 RPM. And cost the same as Frank's new remixed LP's at 33 1/3 . So that in itself is very interestingly strange. But they must of had a reason to not press this on 45. But at least the grooves are big for 3 songs a side. Maybe it didn't make a difference. And kept the 33 speed. Both albums were released this year. I have mostly excellent reviews on the Frank 2 LP set. The CD set has not shown up at discogs. My feeling why ... people will scan the booklets upload it all and all the art and post it there for to save as. The LP is there with the record scans. That is also strange unless it's in a different place that I haven't seen yet. I wouldn't mind seeing the scans myself and all that jazz.

 

One, it was a tongue-in-cheek stab at a frequent complaint about 45rpm pressings...it’s not clear you got that.

And two, there might be increased signal-to-noise ratio, resolution and frequency range extension, but there wouldn’t really be increased dynamics at 45rpm.

 

Oh I got that, but I meant there is the potential for increased dynamics as you can cut louder, depending on groove spacing of course - in this case as these sides will be around 14 minutes in length, I wondered why you wouldn't cut at 45rpm in this case? Anyway, it is what it is...

 

I know what you meant.

As I said, there is theoretical potential for some improvements at 45rpm, but increased dynamics isn’t one of them.

A 14 minute side at 33 rpm will easily capture as much dynamic range as you wish to capture. And honestly, at just 14 minute a side, the improvements at 45rpm would be negligible because you’re actually cramming the grooves at 45rpm compared to four 14 min/33rpm sides.

The bottom line is the very, very small potential fidelity improvements at 45rpm only exist if 33rpm sides are longer than optimal.

Then combine that with the minor nuisance of having to switch to 45rpm and back, it really actually doesn’t make sense to cut at 45rpm.

 

It's only a nuisance if your table makes you take the platter off, etc., like a Rega (I know because my 2nd system has one).

They definitely should have gone the 45 route. I will not buy this release as I have so many great pressings already, but would have bought the 45.

But 45rpm is way too exotic for Ume.

 

How about 12 inch 78RPMs with one song per side?

 

But I will add, that having enjoyed the incredible "in the room" presence of Sinatra on some vinyl 78s from the late Columbia years (DJ only special vinyl pressings), I sometimes wondered what 78 rpm audiophile vinyl pressings of classic Capitol concept albums, like this album, would sound like

 

Interesting. Do you have 78 capability now?

Which FS 78s are best?

 

I go by song first. So, for example, I love a Columia 78 of I'm A Fool To Want You. I especially love it on a mint or near mint vinyl DJ 78. Of course, the Capitol 78s were mostly the so-called "singles" and not the classic concept album tracks. I'd have to sort out what Capitol singles that were issued on 78 are my favorites. There were some vinyl Capitol 78s, and some DJ only 78s. I don't remember all the details and the collection is hard to reach as that aisle is crowded with many extra records.

Original pressings are very nice to play and have some special aura, both sonic and spiritual. This is whether they are 78, 45, 10 inch or 12 inch LP, or even obscure things like transcriptions, V Discs or 33rpm singles. They are all from the time of Sinatra.