Led Zeppelin: Original CDs vs Remasters

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Big A2, Dec 16, 2010.

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  1. appledan

    appledan Resident Rockist

    Location:
    Ohio
    Where are you getting the idea that the original Diament discs are flat transfers? Barry himself has said numerous times that he had used EQ on those Zeppelin discs. He used the EQ built into the playback deck.
     
  2. Danny Caccavo

    Danny Caccavo Senior Member

    Well, that's what I thought Barry told me back in the mid-80's when I had some correspondence about this subject....
     
  3. Snashforce

    Snashforce Living Stereo

    Location:
    NC
    Right - the mastering for the discs used EQ. The only flat transfers were the source tapes which were flat copies of the original master tapes (with the possible exceptions mentioned above).
     
  4. Snashforce

    Snashforce Living Stereo

    Location:
    NC
    Cool. Thanks for the link.
     
  5. Snashforce

    Snashforce Living Stereo

    Location:
    NC
    A channel reversal question:

    On my Diament-mastered Led Zeppelin I cd the high-hat cymbal at the beginning of Good Times Bad Times (for the sake of an easy example) is on the right.
    On my Marino-mastered cd it's on the left. Which channel orientation is considered "correct", how is it on the original LP?
     
  6. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
  7. Snashforce

    Snashforce Living Stereo

    Location:
    NC
  8. bigfix

    bigfix New Member

    I am new here and need to learn a lot.
    I checked my CDs.
    Marino remaster 1994 - left
    2CD remaster set Marino 1990 - right
    4CD remaster box set 1990 - track not in set
    (interesting as I assumed all the tracks on the 2CD set were all taken from the 4CD set)

    Lastly I have a Japanese version from a box set - left
    I do not know what you guys would refer to it as.
    Only clues are this number R2-513924 and that all the albums have been faithfully replicated in detail. Very nice.

    I can only guess that this channel swapping was either a blunder or deliberate.
    Maybe a service tech reversed a connection by mistake, or Jimmy decided to do it as a marker or prank? Who knows, but this is interesting!
     
  9. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    I tolerated 1994 remasters of IV, Houses of Holy, and Physical until I replaced them a few months ago. Though I never had another version to compare to until replacing, "The Wanton Song" always seemed too modern and abusive with compression on the intro with a strong bonzo bass drum attack. My perception of that track was the straw that broke the camels back after listening to it among other 1974 tracks and becoming fed up one afternoon. I then pledged to seek the originals of the 4th thru 6th albums.

    At worst, I knew that other Diament Zep titles received decent treatment. On cd format, I have owned the Diament cds of LZ II, III, and Presence (though never heard the 1994 cd versions) with all sounding great.

    I had known the 1994 remaster of Physical Graffiti for about ten years as my only heard version of the album before replacing. As far as the outro from "Dying," though it may have been Page's intent to include it in the spirit of lightheartedness, variety, or not wanting to edit what actually happened at the end of the track, the epic track is better served by cutting out the frivolous and superfluous bodily function and tomfoolery.
     
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    The BD Zep CDs are the best we have, and probably the best we will ever have, so what is the argument?
     
  11. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    Welcome to the forum, KevinMatthew :wave: Nice post, but you left out the punchline. Did the original Physical Graffiti cd resolve your issue with "The Wanton Song"? Curious minds. . .
     
  12. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Hi curbach. The intro on "Wanton" is definitely is not as jarring on the Diament. It and the other tracks seem to have better dynamic range, upon my initial listens cranking the 1974 tracks in my car. I suspect that Diament did not have much of a worse tape source than the 1994 source for Physical Graffiti. That album's 1974 tracks essentially sound like similar sources. Whatever sweeting, limiting, and compression Marino may have used for the 1994s, to some extent, seems like what the 1994 Virgin 'Exile on Main Street' represents as compared to the original CBS. Tracks on both Exile and Physical Graffiti are often representations of the original engineers capturing performances without good recording levels or maybe bad mixing too. Both 1994 versions seems to be heavy handed exercises in trying to improve upon a cloudy source with worse results than the original cds.

    I have since sold my 1994 Physical Graffiti, so no more comparing for me. For further reading: Mr. Diament explained somewhere on this forum (maybe a U2 thread) regarding his overall approach in dealing with levels. Basically, he expained his use of VU meters rather than peak level meters.
     
  13. screw_squirrel

    screw_squirrel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris France
    Here's the DR took from a Barry Diament version of Physical Graffiti converted to Flac done with Foobar:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Led Zeppelin / Physical Graffiti Disc 1
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR15 0.00 dB -18.57 dB 4:15 01-Custard Pie
    DR13 -2.46 dB -17.48 dB 5:38 02-The Rover
    DR13 -0.92 dB -17.10 dB 11:04 03-In my Time of Dying
    DR13 -0.26 dB -16.32 dB 4:04 04-Houses of the Holy
    DR12 -0.76 dB -15.57 dB 5:38 05-Trampled Under Foot
    DR13 -1.55 dB -18.09 dB 8:33 06-Kashmir
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Number of tracks: 6
    Official DR value: DR13

    Samplerate: 44100 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bits per sample: 16
    Bitrate: 842 kbps
    Codec: FLAC
    ================================================================================

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Analyzed: Led Zeppelin / Physical Graffiti - Disc 2
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    DR Peak RMS Duration Track
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DR13 -2.00 dB -20.17 dB 8:50 01-In the Light
    DR11 -7.80 dB -24.30 dB 2:06 02-Bron-Yr-Aur
    DR12 -1.54 dB -17.02 dB 5:16 03-Down By the Seaside
    DR12 -1.45 dB -18.94 dB 6:34 04-Ten Years Gone
    DR12 -0.99 dB -15.91 dB 3:38 05-Night Flight
    DR13 -0.76 dB -16.63 dB 4:09 06-The Wanton Song
    DR11 -5.61 dB -18.78 dB 3:53 07-Boogie With Stu
    DR13 -1.41 dB -19.27 dB 4:32 08-Black Country Woman
    DR12 -0.49 dB -16.34 dB 4:43 09-Sick Again
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Number of tracks: 9
    Official DR value: DR12

    Samplerate: 44100 Hz
    Channels: 2
    Bits per sample: 16
    Bitrate: 871 kbps
    Codec: FLAC
    ================================================================================

    The dynamics are here even if my Original UK vinyl is slightly better. But is the dynamic the most important factor to make these fantastics songs sound good...?
     
  14. ponkine

    ponkine Senior Member

    Location:
    Villarrica, Chile
    I remember a long time ago (in the 90s) doing an A-B comparision with the LZ IV original v/s remaster

    I didn't like the original. It sounded flat, hissy, without punch and lacking bass. I found the remaster more enjoyable. Yes, it was louder, but nowhere near as loud as Mothership. Now THAT's bad

    :agree:
     
  15. rockclassics

    rockclassics Senior Member

    Location:
    Mainline Florida
    Keep in mind that Barry Diament did not master IV - it is the only one he did not do. Joe Sidore did IV.

    I agree - the mastering on Mothership is bad.
     
  16. Sandinista

    Sandinista Forum Resident

    I didn't vote as I only have the remasters, individual copies these days. Grew up on the LPs. One thing I do remember circa 1991, I think: I briefly had what I think was an original US pressing of PG in fatboy case. I played at home, and at the time I had a pretty good system, and sounded terrible. Really bad. Were there different US pressings of this back then that might've sounded different? I see most here favor the original CDs so maybe it's me but it was startling.
     
  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Your opinion of sound can change. I use to like remasters over original CDs, now, if it is louder I look for something older. It is all about sounding natural, to me. Give the original CDs another try. They sound way more balanced and natural.
     
  18. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    The Wanton Song ... In the main riff of the song, there is roughly the 3/4's part where all 3 guitar, bass, and drums are going. Then the 1/4 part with just the snare drum hit. On the remaster, that single snare drum sticks out too much.

    I think someone in the past said that there was no (additional) compression added to the RMs vs the original CDs; this isn't true. For the early ones, the RMs have about the same dynamic range as the originals. But for PG and Presence, the RMs are more compressed. ... And that explains why those singular snare drum hits on TWS stick out more on the remaster.

    I did personally go back and compare them all. There are things to like about the RMs for II, IV, and Presence. The midrange stands out a little more on II, which highlights Jimmy's guitar and Plant's vocals. For Presence, the original CD has a bright midrange/lower highs, and the RM mellows that some.

    The original CDs smoke the remasters for III and HotH though. Still need to compare I, ITTOD, and Coda,... but I care less about those ones. :)
     
  19. rockclassics

    rockclassics Senior Member

    Location:
    Mainline Florida
    How could you not care about the first album? :shrug: To each their own.

    I will say the the original CD of ITTOD is much better than the remaster IMO. The highs on the remaster seem to be boosted a lot - at least that is the way I hear it on my system. The original CD is much more even / balanced with respect to the highs, mids, and lows.
     
  20. kingofstoneage

    kingofstoneage Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    i still prefer my SHM Mini Vinyl Replicas:edthumbs:

    these are the best sounding CDs so far, imo.

    i compared it with the Cornboxes, the Complete Studio Recordings, some original cds, early Mini Vinyls from Japan and the Mothership version.
     
  21. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    You need to reread what I wrote. I didn't say I didn't care about it. I said that I care less about it than the ones I have compared so far. Get it? It's a comparison statement. Not an absolute.

    :wave:
     
  22. rockclassics

    rockclassics Senior Member

    Location:
    Mainline Florida
    Got it. I think my eye / mind saw a "could" in there making the statement say "but I "could" care less about those ones".
     
  23. monewe

    monewe Forum Resident

    Location:
    SCOTLAND
    For me I prefer the originals
     
  24. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    Your comments on ITTOD are going to motivate me to compare that one. :) I wouldn't be surprised to hear the same things you do.



    Quick question: is there an originally mastered version of Hey Hey What Can I Do on CD?
     
  25. GreenDrazi

    GreenDrazi Truth is beauty

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    What does "originally mastered version" mean?

    This was a non-album single B-side and first appeared in digital form on the 1990 LZ Box Set.
     
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