Led Zeppelin: Original CDs vs Remasters

I think he is asking if there is another digital version with an earlier mastering than the box set. I don't believe there is. The only other digital release of this was a CD single with "Immigrant Song" and "Hey, Hey..." which was released around the same time as the box set. I don't have the box set to compare peak values, but I suspect that they would be the same mastering.

 

Bingo. IOW, did Barry or anyone else ever master this song for CD before George Marino? Sounds like not. Would have been interesting to compare.

 

Agree,

There are needledrops of the original 45 RPM of "Hey, Hey...." floating around on the internet. I have no idea who mastered the original 45, but it might be interesting to compare that.

 

The previously elusive HHWCID did not appear on CD prior to the '90 Page/Marino remasters. FWIW the mastering from the CD single is most to my liking - as with the albums themselves the track would get louder and Louder with each subsequent release.

 

I have the CD-Backtrax single of Immigrant Song/Hey Hey What Can I Do with the big red Atlantic logo label. This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Immigrant-Son...=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1326335676&sr=1-3

Immigrant Song sounds quite loud and compressed on it (probably Marino's).

On the other hand, Hey Hey sounds very nice! In fact, when I put it next to the songs from the original (Diament) LZ III, the levels, dynamics and tone are very, very close. I recommend it.

 

This CD Single was released in ‘92 and was undoubtedly the same Marino mastering as the ‘90 LZ Box Set.

 

I have the 45 of Hey Hey. It seems to fade out at the end, unlike the one they play on the radio. It may be a reissue 45. You can really here that "bar chatter" at the end on the one they play here in St. Louis.

 

Thanks Rick.

 

Do you have it? It doesn't come with liner notes, so I don't know who did what. Still, I'm surprised at how different the first track sounds from the second.

Bottom line: if you like Diament's work on the originals, you'll be happy with this version of Hey Hey What Can I Do. I know I am.

 

No, I don't. Which is one of the reasons that I said "undoubtedly." Perhaps you can run a DR report along with the RMS value on the CDS and post it here?

DR/RMS value of “Hey Hey ...” from the LZ Box Set:

Code:

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR13       0.00 dB   -15.12 dB      3:56 14-Hey Hey What Can I Do

And FWIW, I'm happy with some of both the Marino and BD masters.

 

It all depends on how loud I want to listen to them. Loud-Diament, Low Volume-Remasters

 

Case By Case

LD I-original
LD II-original
LD III-200g Classic LP-The SHM is 2nd, 3rd the original-The cds all sound bad on this one
to me.
LD IV-W/G Target for half, Remaster the other half
HOTH-W/G Target-The remaster,What a mess, Bright as hell. BAD, BAD,BAD
PG-A toss up between the 200g Classic LP & SHM, Hard to Call...The SHM is louder for sure but very detailed on certain songs
ITTOD-I really like the SHM for this, loud but sounds damn good.
PRESENCE-SHM hands down, kills the original
CODA-Classic 200g LP, 2nd to the original..very close!!!

 

Here are DR/RMS numbers from CD single:

Code:

------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: Hey Hey What Can I Do?
Number of samples: 10416420
Duration: 3:56 
--------------------------------------------------------

                 Left              Right

Peak Value:      0.00 dB   ---      0.00 dB   
Avg RMS:       -15.19 dB   ---    -15.05 dB   
DR channel:     12.58 dB   ---     12.69 dB   
--------------------------------------------------------

Official DR Value: DR13

===================================

 

There are some old HHWCID threads, but not much info on SQ:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=19939
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=41695

Also a CD thread:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=135074

 

Looks to be the exact same - although, what are you using that splits the channels for the DR report?

 

If you run the offline TT DR meter on a subdir, it only reports the average for each song in that subdir. If you run it on an individual file, then you get L & R channel info.

 

Thanks Kevin.


Also the Foobar plugin is still supported by the author - and for free! Current/latest version is from 08 Nov 2011. In addition it works on .flac . It may even be more accurate than the offline meter?

http://www.jokhan.demon.nl/DynamicRange/index.htm


"jokhan" if you are reading this, Huge Thanks for your efforts!

 

Not to derail, however I picked up a copy of the first CD in Hong Kong a few years ago at HMW (rip) for a decent price.
It's a mini LP package and sounds fantastic. At the time, HMV had 2 & 3 as well in similar package and price, but I did not pick them up.
Anyone know where I can find them now?

 

Interesting poll results - what you didn't include we're the most recent abominations from 2007 (Mothership sounds horrid to me and I actually like the 90s Marino remasters) so it probably would have been more fair not to lump all remasters together.

 

I love the remasters. The originals sound fine, so I kept them.

 

I've been listening to Zepp since high school [when they were retro-cool - they may still be] and they only way I've ever done so is with the volume cranked. If I want to listen to something at low volume it would never ever be Zep. Same goes for Sabbath, Maiden, etc.....

The Zep mini-lp's are all based on the Page/Marino remasters. The dynamics are reduced as they were made louder for those apparently without volume controls - I guess? Since they were all based on the Page/Marino's, in effect they were mastered from existing CD's.

Hated the sound of them so I sold off mine years ago except for III and PG which I kept soley for packaging although I can buy the original vinyl for a lot less and they look even cooler....

Try eBay or Japan website sellers these should not be too hard to locate. Or try a WTB in the forum classifieds as most [but not all] audiophile's abhor the loud and strangely EQ'd mini-lp "trademark" sound.

 

Rick, the first batch of Japanese mini-LP's from Japan from the late 90's have the original LZ remasters without the volume boost. These have the catalog number prefix AMCY-2xxx. These have also thicker cardboard than the later mini-LP's, and these are my preferred version of the LZ remasters. I have a complete set of those. I mostly prefer the originals but some songs sound better to me on the remasters. I think "Misty Mountain Hop" was one of them, for example.

 

By the way, there is (only?) one exception with regards to the subsequent Japanese mini-LP's being louder from release to release. That exception is "Coda". I have the original Japanese mini-LP AMCY-2442 and also the SHM-CD of "Coda" (which also has the four bonus songs which fit perfectly on this album). For this, the levels are more or less unchanged between the initial remaster and the much later SHM-CD.

See info below. First is from the first Japanese mini-LP and second from the SHM-CD:

Code:

foobar2000 1.1.10 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2012-01-16 21:30:51

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Led Zeppelin / Coda
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10       0.00 dB   -11.55 dB      2:38 01-We're Gonna Groove
DR12       0.00 dB   -13.98 dB      3:02 02-Poor Tom
DR11       0.00 dB   -12.78 dB      4:18 03-I Can't Quit You Baby
DR10       0.00 dB   -11.37 dB      4:31 04-Walter's Walk
DR10       0.00 dB   -11.12 dB      3:36 05-Ozone Baby
DR11       0.00 dB   -12.18 dB      5:07 06-Darlene
DR11      -0.22 dB   -13.47 dB      4:19 07-Bonzo's Montreux
DR11       0.00 dB   -11.83 dB      5:30 08-Wearing And Tearing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  8
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           1411 kbps
Codec:             CDDA
================================================================================

Code:

foobar2000 1.1.10 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2012-01-16 21:37:50

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: LED ZEPPELIN / Coda
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR10       0.00 dB   -11.59 dB      2:38 01-We're Gonna Groove
DR12       0.00 dB   -13.97 dB      3:02 02-Poor Tom
DR11       0.00 dB   -12.84 dB      4:18 03-I Can't Quit You Baby
DR10       0.00 dB   -11.41 dB      4:31 04-Walter's Walk
DR10       0.00 dB   -11.17 dB      3:36 05-Ozone Baby
DR11       0.00 dB   -12.18 dB      5:07 06-Darlene
DR11      -0.22 dB   -13.47 dB      4:19 07-Bonzo's Montreux
DR11       0.00 dB   -11.92 dB      5:31 08-Wearing And Tearing
DR11       0.00 dB   -13.66 dB      4:29 09-(bonus) Baby Come On Home
DR11      -1.87 dB   -14.58 dB      5:11 10-(bonus) Travelling Riverside Blues
DR13       0.00 dB   -18.80 dB      8:03 11-(bonus) White Summer/Black Mountain Side
DR10       0.00 dB   -12.62 dB      3:56 12-(bonus) Hey Hey What Can I Do
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  12
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           1411 kbps
Codec:             CDDA
================================================================================

 

Thanks. The only 1 I had/have from the first batch was/is III. I also feel Misty as well as Goin to California sound better on the remaster but I don't like the early fades.

 

I had a complete set that I bought around 1996-1997. They were very nice as I recall. I sold them for a nice profit, but sometimes I wish I still had them. I made backup copies, so I can still enjoy those.

I think it was determined that The original version of The Song Remains The Same was never remastered. That title was part of the mini LPs Roland mentions. I haven't listened to it in a very long time, but I'll assume that it has the original Barry Diament mastering.