SH Spotlight "Wanna Buy A Record?" movie with Mel Blanc at Capitol Studios, how records are recorded & pressed..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jun 17, 2013.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Yes, I agree.
     
  2. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    Isn't that John Kraus in the 1958 movie when they show the engineer behind the board in the main control room? Looks like him to me...
     
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Here's the only photo of Kraus that I have, and it's from 1978:

    JohnKraus1978.jpg

    Here are two screenshots from the film:
    Screen shot 2013-06-26 at 7.26.05 PM.jpg Screen shot 2013-06-26 at 7.26.20 PM.jpg

    Wish I could tell....

    Thoughts?
     
  4. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    There's also the picture of John Kraus in SESSIONS WITH SINATRA, standing in front of an Ampex tape machine. I *think* that's him, but I'm not 100%...
     
  5. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

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    Central VA
    See my post #63 above. I'm pretty sure you're correct.

    Another special numbering series Capitol set up inside its first series of 45s was for Christmas singles. In 1957, it set aside numbers 3900 through 3924 for them, but after a small number of singles in the series, it never went back to them. I think Capitol used 3900 through 3905 - thus there are no 45s for 3906 through 3924 in the original series.

    F3900 - Frank Sinatra - Mistletoe and Holly/The Christmas Waltz
    F3901 - Fred Waring - Christmas Was Meant for Children/I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day
    F3902 - Mel Blanc - The Hat I Got for Christmas Is Too Beeg/Pancho's Christmas
    F3903 - Tex Ritter - Here Was a Man/It Came Upon a Midnight Clear
    F3904 - Yogi Yorgesson - I Yust Go Nuts at Chrismas/Yingle Bells
    F3905 - Margaret Whiting & Jimmy Wakely - Silver Bells/Christmas Candy
     
  6. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

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    Hmm. So these would've been released before 1958, which was within the range of the regular 3900 (non-holiday) block? The Yorgesson record (3904), because it was in print for so many years and through several different label designs, was one where, because of one particular design, could have been mistaken for a release several years later. I speak of the 1973-75 variant of the orange / tan Capitol label design issue of this 45, as a result until recently this record was mistakenly listed on one website as having been released in 1974 rather than '57!
     
  7. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    Now that I watched him and Palladino in the 1962 movie, I'm not so sure. The glasses vs. without make it harder to tell...
     
  8. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

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    The November 25, 1957 issue of Billboard has a review of the Fred Waring single "I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day," with the catalog number listed as Capitol 3901. One week earlier, in the November 18, 1957, Billboard, Capitol took out a full-page ad, "Christmas in Hi-Fi from Capitol," complete with red and green "spot" color (as they call it in the newspaper business). All six of the Christmas singles in the 3900 series are listed in that ad.

    Yes, the Yorgesson single was in print on 3904 well into the 1970s. I know that the Whiting/Wakely single also was in print on 3905 for many years, and it, too, exists on the orange label. Both of them remained available at least through the black "rainbow" label of the mid-1980s.
     
  9. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    And yet . . . the 3900 cat. # would later be reused for a 1974 single from Merle Haggard & The Strangers, "Old Man from the Mountain." But that's for a whole 'nother thread, I s'pose . . .
     
  10. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

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    It also reused 3901, for a single by Brush Arbor, and 3903, for a single by a group called Snafu. I'm not sure about 3902.

    When Capitol repeated numbers - from 2000 into the 5000s for 45s (1967-1987) and from 100 through the 800s in LPs (1968-1972) - it always skipped over those numbers from the prior series that were still in print. For example, Nat King Cole's Unforgettable LP was still in print on Capitol DT 357 when the number 357 came up in in the later series. Therefore, no new album was assigned the number 357. This happened more and more frequently the closer Capitol got to 900. If Capitol reused the number, it was a sure sign that the prior release was no longer in print.
     
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  11. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
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    Billboard-Nov-18-1957.jpg
    Billboard-Nov-18-1957-closeup.jpg

    The two Sinatra singles had different versions of "The Christmas Waltz" on their B-sides—#2954 was a 1954 single release, arranged by Nelson Riddle; #3900 was from the new JOLLY CHRISTMAS album (Capitol W 894, at the top of the tree), arranged by Gordon Jenkins.
     
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  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

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    It's interesting...that Fred Waring album was also recorded in stereo, while the Sinatra one was not...
     
  13. Michael P

    Michael P Forum Resident

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    Parma, Ohio
    I think Capitol used Fred Waring as their "stereo pioneer". I have a CD from an original Fred Waring Christmas album recorded in 1957 "Now is the Caroling Season" (they even listed the exact recording dates for every track in the CD booklet). I had a beat-up used (sans cover) LP of the same album on a green label. To find it in glorious stereo was a real treat. The original catalog number was (S)T-896. That's a very low number form the original numbering series to be in real stereo! So this had to be one of the earliest Capitol stereo releases.
     
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  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Yes, John Kraus told me personally that stereo meant NOTHING to Capitol, except to make a little extra money among the wacky audiophiles of the day (sound familiar?) So they recorded big elevator music type stuff the most in "binaural", because that is what they figured the Hi-Fi nuts wanted to show off their systems.
     
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  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The Waring album, NOW IS THE CAROLING SEASON (T 896), was recorded in May 1957, which is actually before A JOLLY CHRISTMAS FROM FRANK SINATRA (W 894), recorded in July. However, according to The Fred Waring Discography, the Waring album was recorded in New York City—not Hollywood.

    Of course, Sinatra's previous album, WHERE ARE YOU?, was also recorded in stereo in April and May (in Hollywood), so the studio location was not the deciding factor for making his Christmas album mono-only. Both Christmas LPs were released at the same time in September 1957.
     
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  16. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    It wouldn't have been RELEASED in stereo in 1957, except perhaps on reel-to-reel tape (which was the real market for stereo originally). I believe that a Nat King Cole album was one of the first Capitol albums RECORDED in stereo, in late 1956. The assigned catalog number is not necessarily a reliable indicator of the stereo LP release date. Sinatra's WHERE ARE YOU? did not come out on a stereo LP (SW 855) until two years after the mono issue.
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Black Satin by George Shearing was recorded one week earlier than LOVE IS THE THING.
     
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  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Wasn't BLACK SATIN re-recorded for stereo at a later date (like the Jackie Gleason albums?)
     
  19. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I've got the Capitol 2-track reel from 1957, so if it was re-recorded later, there are two stereo versions. (I don't think it was redone, but can't say for certain.)
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    OK, I'm wrong. The version I heard on a stereo LP (cut by Wally in the 1980's) just to see what the fuss was about, was barely stereo, I mean, really bad. I see now that it was probably a 1980's "remix" from the three-track.

    Is the two-track tape nice stereo, wide, etc.?
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I've actually never played it! I'll try to get off my fat duff tonight and thread it up and report back. (I got it on Ebay a few weeks ago, and playing it has been on the back burner, along with copying some Sinatra stuff. My bad!)
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    If it sounds really wonderful, I'd like to hear one of the songs, just to hear a "Z" mix of the thing for once.
     
  24. Michael P

    Michael P Forum Resident

    Location:
    Parma, Ohio
    I also have a later Fred Waring Christmas album (S)T-1260 that was recorded in 1959. I had the mono version as a kid and bought the stereo from a used record vendor. Both mono and stereo were on the "rainbow" label, perhaps one of the earliest on that label (my mono copy was purchased in 1960 so it is not a latter pressing). Another anomaly was discovered the first time I heard the stereo version. One of the tracks, which was mainly sung a-capella had a pipe organ on the stereo version. Perhaps the organ was out of phase and cancelled out (presuming that the mono was a fold down).

    Anyway on the back of ST-1260 it advertised that there was an ST-896 (the mono cover advertised T-896). So it's possible there was a vinyl release in stereo for "Now is the Caroling Season", at least by 1959.
     
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    As far as a timeline for Capitol non-classical stereo stuff goes, I think the following is true for Los Angeles, where "back in the day" releases are concerned:

    Earliest stereo recording to eventually be released on Capitol during the 1950s: Okalahoma soundtrack, recorded at Goldwyn, by Todd-AO, for Todd-AO. I don't have the dates handy, but this would have been, I think, in the first half of 1955. Recorded on 6-track mag film, Capitol had minimal involvement with this, which also explains why there was no 2-track tape release of this huge-seller. Todd-AO created a stereo mix for LP release in the late 50s, and that album (like it's August 1955 mono version) sold like hotcakes and stayed in print for decades. A landmark in the world of soundtrack albums. (Trivia: First-released stereo soundtrack album? Cinerama's South Seas Adventure, by Alex North, recorded on 7-track mag film and released on Audio Fidelity (the original incarnation of that company name). Killer sound quality.)

    Earliest stereo recording made BY Captiol: Kenton in Hi-Fi, Feb. 1956, I think, recorded at Goldwyn again, but by Capitol mixer John Palladino, not by an outside company like Todd-AO.

    Earliest stereo recording made at Capitol studios: Ella Fitzgerald's Rodgers & Hart Songbook album, recorded at the tower in August of 1956, but released on the Verve label. I think Val Valentin did this one. (He joined the Capitol staff in December of 1956.)

    Earliest stereo recording made At Capitol, BY Capitol, FOR Capitol: Black Satin by George Shearing. I don't have the dates handy, but this was in December of 1956, about a week earlier than the first session for LOVE IS THE THING.

    I'm not sure where Capitol's NYC studios stuff fits into the timeline. There's an early David Carroll release called "Havana in Hi-Fi" on Mercury that was recorded at Capitol NYC by mixer Frank Abbey using two U47s (according to Mercury info). Then there's the Gleason VELVET BRASS recording. Anybody have those dates handy? (I'm not at home.)
     
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