Phono Preamp Upgrade

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by WapatoWolf, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. WapatoWolf

    WapatoWolf Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    Hi all,
    Would like input on a phone preamp upgrade. I now have a Cambridge 640p, Rega P3-24 w/tt psu, AT 440 MLA, Cambridge 640A integrated. Looking for a significant upgrade. Will probably buy used. I want very quiet noise floor and ability to use MM and MC. also maximum setting flexibility. I have heard that tube amps can produce noise and hum.
    My Choices:
    Musical Surroundings Phonomena
    Lehhmann Black Cube Statement
    Hagerman Bugle 2
    Budgie Preamp Basic (maybe)

    OR should i stand pat with my Cambridge 640P? Thank you in advance!!
     
  2. rob303

    rob303 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I currently have a SimAudio 110LP and I get a little noise with my tube amp. I too am looking at the Phenomena. Would love to hear from folks!
     
  3. raferx

    raferx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
  4. K. Jones

    K. Jones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    I had the 640p and the MS phonomena, I thought they were pretty close in sound signature, with the MS having more flexibility of course. I remember being let down by the MS coming from the 640. Also, I guess I prefer tubes in my phono section though, so it might be more to your liking. I've tried replacing my Bottlehead Seduction a few times and nothing has beaten it. I'm now using a step up for a low MC. Never had a noticeable noise problem with tubes. Hope this helps....
     
  5. Preston

    Preston Forum Resident

    Location:
    KCMO Metro USA
    I owned a Lehmann Black Cube SE about 13-14 years ago and it was excellent. Tremendous dynamics and great bass. Wasn't thin-sounding, but DEFINITELY not tubey either. Fremer gave a great review of the Statement on his website and I believe one of the other columnists (Dudley?) reviewed a different Lehmann phono preamp (about $2000) in his column in this month's Stereophile. Fremer compared the Statement to maybe five or six other comparably-priced phono preamps and gave it top honors.
     
  6. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I had a similar dilemma very recently and opted for the Budgie. The Budgie hasn't arrived yet, so I can't comment on the sound quality.

    Also, if you don't mind waiting until July, you can get an all tube Cornet3 for $400 (though the order deadline is in four days): https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1907446723/cornet3-a-diy-tube-phono-preamp

    I hemmed and hawed between the Cornet3 and the Budgie because I wanted something tube-based and finally decided on the Budige, but Hagerman phono preamps are supposed to be very good for the money.
     
  7. attym

    attym Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I had my 640p modded (hypnotoad). It was like night and day.
     
  8. WapatoWolf

    WapatoWolf Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    Yes,that helps a lot. Thanks (although sorry you had to go thru that experience). I don't want to be disappointed w/my upgrade. I guess that rules out the MS Phonomena.
     
  9. WapatoWolf

    WapatoWolf Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    Please keep us posted on your Budgie!!
     
    PBo likes this.
  10. I modded one of these once for someone. It shows what a lost opportunity Cambridge had. The factory bean counters took this down the road of mediocrity. Too bad, it sings with some love and care.
     
    mikeyt likes this.
  11. JL6161

    JL6161 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    With an AT 440 MLA, I wouldn't recommend any of the phono stages on your short list because none of them has super-low (or variable) input capacitance, which is what I believe AT recommends (100-200 pF total). I'm not sure what's out there at that price point that would work; I have a fab old Rogue Stealth that lets you set capacitance loading to 0 pF, bless its heart, and I see there's one of those up on Audiogon right now (the fancier upgraded Magnum version).

    Whoops, actually, the Lehmann Black Cube seems to have 100 pF input capacitance, and if you use really low-cap, short-run phone cable, you might squeak by under 200 pF total with that one, depending on the arm wiring.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
  12. WapatoWolf

    WapatoWolf Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    Thanks. I forgot to mention that i will be buying a used Dynavector 10 x 5 cartridge as soon as i find one. I am happy with the AT, and will keep that as my backup.
     
  13. JL6161

    JL6161 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Well heck, with a HOMC, you're good to go on any of your choices, but I'd probably be all over the Phonomena because it has so much flexibility for the future.
     
  14. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I thought the Budgie had loading options?: http://www.parksaudiollc.com/budgie.html
     
  15. JL6161

    JL6161 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Those are load resistance options, not capacitance.
     
    PBo likes this.
  16. skriefal

    skriefal Senior Member

    Location:
    SLC, Utah
    Shannon Parks told me that the Budgie has an input capacitance of approximately 50pF. He likes to keep input capacitance low, like Jim Hagerman. Should work nicely with an AT440MLa.
     
    JL6161 likes this.
  17. JL6161

    JL6161 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    That's good to know; I'll add those to my "MM-friendly preamps to look into" list.
     
  18. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Anyone compare the above with the JLTi?
     
  19. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I got the Budgie in today and I'm very pleased. I'm not sure how it compares to some of the other phono stages you listed earlier, but compared to my NAD 3020 PE and Bellari VP129, the Budgie sounds phenomenal. I can post a clip later if you want with an AT440mla, so you can get an idea of the sound. Just let me know if you have a couple of bands or albums in mind you'd like to hear.
     
    Daniel Thomas likes this.
  20. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Do it! Please. Let us know how you have it set up. I have mine at 38K and about 110pF. Very interested in how the very low capacitance settings work.
     
  21. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I wasn't sure what to upload. Here's an excerpt of a Roxy Music song off of Avalon: https://www.hightail.com/download/elNKQndNNnk5eFYzZU1UQw

    That's with the AT440mla with the resistance set at 36.1 k. I didn't normalize or de-click the clip. I can post a couple of more samples tomorrow if that doesn't suffice.
     
  22. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
  23. deadcoldfish

    deadcoldfish Senior Member

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Is that with the stock tubes in the Budgie ?
     
  24. deadcoldfish

    deadcoldfish Senior Member

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Also, what are you using as an ADC ?
     
  25. PBo

    PBo Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Those are the stock tubes. It came with Electro Harmonix 6922s. For the recording I used a Mackie Onyx Satellite into Audacity on a MacBook Pro.
     
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