Neil Young on digital audio: You're doing it wrong

I would always go for "all of the above".

Cloud backups do have one key advantage, in that they aren't location-specific. It's nice to know that if I find myself in exile in some foreign country, I could still finish my album.

 

Good one!

 

With regards to me showing considerable evidence, see my post on this thread earlier (post #211). I've given you a few tips on how to make your own mind up on whether iTunes files at 256kbbps AAC sourced from a 24/96 master (which is required for a "MFiT" release) sound better or not than a 256kbps AAC file sourced from 16bit/44.1 masters, which I dare say is the case with most music on iTunes except the "MFiT" releases.

You don't have to use a Led Zeppelin release. You can download any track from iTunes that's marked "MFiT" and then rip the CD version of that same track or album at 256kbps AAC and compare the two. The AC/DC catalogue is also available on iTunes as "MFiT". You could decide by downloading a track or album from the AC/DC catalogue and compare them with the 2003 remastered editions on CD, if you have any.

This will demonstrate the exact thing you're asking me to provide evidence on.

How the hell do you expect me to demonstrate the difference to you when you're in Missouri, USA and I'm in West Sussex, UK?

 

That seems to be where the breakdown in communication comes.

You said there is "considerable evidence", but now you're moving the goalposts and changing it to "tips" on making up my own mind.

My mind is made up, for now (based on what I have experienced). I simply want to see this "considerable evidence" you claim exists. If there is "considerable evidence", you should have no problem linking me to several examples. Until then, it is the word of yourself, and one engineer.

That's not exactly "considerable". It's the opinions of two whole people.

 

Actually I have found a way for showing you the difference. I'll PM you.

 

No, there isn't anymore. There was, when the technology was developing so rapidly that it was hard to keep the pace, and that's when digital obsolescence happened sometimes. That's not the case anymore. All the most-used audio codecs (FLAC, LAME MP3) are mature technologies, all are open-source and can be compiled to run on anything, including your fridge and toaster. They are not going anywhere. Personally, I'm using LAME and FLAC binaries that are from 2006 and 2007, that's 8 years old. Everything runs perfectly on my Windows 7 laptop, and can run perfectly on Windows 8 and any future version. That means that I don't need to worry about anything until at least the 2030'ies. So if some big technological shift happens, I have DECADES to prepare for it. You need to realize it's not the 80s or 90s anymore. Unless you choose some proprietary technology that can become obsolete at the whim of its manufacturer, but that's your own fault then.

 

At the moment, I am streaming FLAC files from my iMac via WiFi through a Squeezebox Touch into a dual-mono DAC which feeds a McIntosh MX112 preamp and McIntosh MC225 tube amp. Alternatively, I play FLAC files on my jailbroken iPhone 5S via the Golden Ear app. I must say, streaming FLAC files from my phone while driving sounds pretty astonishing. I guess my question is: Do we really need Mr. Young's $400 player and another audio (cost) format that is NOT open source?

In addition, there are rumors swirling of Apple releasing 24-bit tracks: http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...-res-24-bit-tracks-on-itunes-in-coming-months

And finally, it is utterly ludicrous for anyone to say Mr. Young and his company "are not in it for the money". Their Kickstarter campaign, with a goal of $800K, just closed with over $6M in funding. Does he really need DRM if he owns the new audio format?

 

I had a computer issue the other day. Operating system problem. I had to re-install programs from discs. I started thinking "Our entire lives are now digital".
For most of us, all our photographs are digital, our home video's are digital, our music is digital, out television signals are digital, our movies downloaded are digital, our communication is digital, etc.
Your relatives lose a few hard drives after you die and it's as if you never existed.

 

Not if you do the smart thing and back them up to the cloud.

 

Just curious, what program are you using to stream FLAC from your iMac? I stream ALAC from mine using iTunes, but of course iTunes won't recognize FLAC.

 

Was it really any different before digital?

 

Good point.

Lose a box full of pictures, and a box full of records/tapes/CD's...

 

Neil Young should be pushing for proper mastering - like the way vinyl records get mastered. I think it's good he's trying to push better portable audio gear into the market though. Maybe that will help people see how poorly mastered a lot of digital recordings are, and appreciate the ones that are done right.

A few months back, I bought the Audio Fidelity Hybrid SACD of "Billion Dollar Babies" by Alice Cooper. I don't know who mastered it, but that is an example of how digital recordings should be mastered. I like it more than the vinyl record of that album I have.

 

I think the cloud will eliminate a lot of this. Major cloud providers (Dropbox, google drive, Microsoft OneDrive) have backups in place, and it's highly unlikely any of those services will shut down without sufficient notice to customers to migrate their data elsewhere if need be.

I think of all the laser-rotted DVD's (and DVD-R's), CD-R's...aging, now unplayable VHS tapes, etc...boxes of photographs that are lost, misplaced, or ruined by time (or fire/water damage)...for anyone who takes the time to do digital right (keep a backup or store backups in the cloud), digital trumps old formats in every feasible way. (outside of music listening, obviously )

 

Exactly!

He should be pushing to end the loudness war.

But, there's no money in that...

 

God, I wish this was still true. Got some great deals 4+ years ago, but at least in my area, finding anything worth buying in good condition is a lost cause.

 

I disagree. People like us - people who care about how it sounds - will buy it. Hopefully devices like the Pono will help everyday folks see that loud is not better.

 

So he's passively aggressively fighting against the loudness war?

OK, I can support that.

 

When it comes to backing up photos, you could say exactly the same about the photos themselves and/or the original negatives. These could be lost just as easy and damaged a lot easier. I believe that a hard drive is less likely to get lost in the future because of the importance of them and all the data that they hold to the individual or family. There's even less chance of losing all this data if they're backed up on two or three hard drives. They are also very reliable now.

As I've already stated, I believe this should be done to all music as well by all the different record companies.

 

This link is from another thread currently on this forum .......

http://gigaom.com/2014/04/18/audio-...-the-next-big-thing-and-go-with-flac-instead/

As a person who has little knowledge with regards to the technology Pono are claiming we need to enable us to hear music properly again, it's hard to find an unbiased opinion in the debate.
You then read an article like this, from a guy who appears to have an understanding of the tech and he's telling me it's a con ?

"It’s tricking people who don’t know enough about technology,”

Is this what Pono are trying to sell us or is this something different again ?

Is this guy even understanding what's going on or is he confused as well ?

This is why I'll be scratching my head about all of this until I actually have the opportunity to hear one I guess .......

 

Good article, I would agree. We have flac.

Although I don't know much about this new pono service or whatever. Is it just a player or new codec/compression technique???
Companies are putting out newer and smaller devices everyday for hi rez to CD quality playback, like Chord. Don't know what the big fuss is about some newer, possible device coming out possible in another year? If it's all about making people aware of quality music then why does it have to be apart of some other fad? Oh well, each to their own.

 

Okay, my bad, I actually just read the article posted by the op. Sounds good in speech and writing, but where is it? EDIT: Okay, I'm just going to shut up and sit in the corner with some tunes. LOL

 

Pono is (or will be) a player and a music store. The music files in the store will be FLAC not a proprietary format.

 

For a start, he's wrong to say that 24bit/96kHz is only beneficial if the original recording was recorded in that same bite rate and sample rate... that's just total cr*p!
I'm talking from experience.

As for upsampling, HDtracks have told me personally in an email that they never sell upsampled music and they test for this before uploading the music to their online store. Maybe they were just saying that to fob me off, who knows?

I certainly can't see Pono Music selling upsampled music, judging by what their goal is.

When he says about not needing to go higher than 24/96, he may have a point. I've only ever heard one 24/192 playback, and it didn't sound as good as the numerous 24/96 releases I own.

Is there software out there that customers can use to find out if their purchased 24/96 files are upsampled from 16/44.1 or any other lower bit rate and sample size? If there is, this may be an incentive for record companies to not provide upsampled music to high resolution music stores. It would also be an incentive for high resolution music stores themselves to check the files they've been given thoroughly so to make sure that they are legit 24/96 or 192 files and not upsampled.

 

I took his quote in the article to mean at least recorded in similar or ABOVE in 24bit/96khz. Not ONLY.
But I could see you coming to that conclusion from verbatim.