Pirated vinyl glut at the moment - record label's missing out on an opportunity?

Which store was doing that back in 2010? You can PM me.

 

I have that Buckingham/Nicks lp. It actually sounds really good but I would prefer a legitimate one. I really thought it was a legitimate import.

 

Because they are coming from distributors that are telling them (wink,wink) they're legit.

 

This is happening in New Zealand too (Wellington at least)...we have very few records stores here, and one of them has had more and more bootlegs/fakes show up on their shelf's over the last year (which are not labeled as bootelgs at all).
On RSD this year when looking around, a good proportion of their new vinyl in the "new" section were bootlegs/fakes.

I don't think there is anything wrong with selling actual bootlegs...some can be interesting. Its all these releases that are hard to come by showing up as fake/reproductions and being sold as legitimate items not labelled as fakes that is a problem.
Some I have picked up thinking I would like to buy, but with no way of knowing if its real or not then it gets put back.

Also the prices here don't reflect the bootleg/fake nature of these lps either...the store has also not responded to a fried who ha been asking them to label them.

 

There's a local store who has some pirates that are in the bins for sure, although it's mainly a used store. I bought a Piper at the Gates of Dawn not knowing what it was (actually sounds pretty good), but my wife bought a Scorpio-released Gandalf (60's psych) on blue vinyl and while the pressing is flat and quiet, it's clearly digitally sourced. But originals for that Gandalf record are impossible to find and very pricey - this was something like $15. For some people this might be the only way to get something on vinyl.

I'd always prefer to buy the real thing, but if the real thing isn't available is it unethical to buy these?

 

I don't think its unethical to buy them no...as long as they are clearly labelled for what they are then you have the choice to buy it or not.
That is where it is unethical perhaps...when selling a bootleg/fake at no point anywhere does the original artist get a cut, (however small those cuts may be anyway), so label it so people know what the product is (and have the choice).

They do sell as well...there are plenty of these fakes of albums that have not had any kind of official reissue (i.e nick cave murder ballads, which i want, but not a fake).
Ultimately the label who owns the rights is dropping the ball by not reissuing these albums on vinyl...the bootleggers/pirates are plugging the supply/demand gap, really.

 

I don't understand why anybody would buy a digitally-sourced, illegally (and poorly) made bootleg just to "have it on vinyl".

It seems like these are just taking advantage of new or gullible (especially young) record buyers who don't know any better. None of these are labeled as boots, counterfeits, fakes, whatever in the shops. The store owners are playing dumb cause I'm sure the profit margin on these is paying some bills. At least be honest with your customers.

 

I'd like to state for the record (see what I did there?) that there's a huge difference between the words "bootleg" and "pirate".

A bootleg record is a release that has not ever been released in a legitimate form, i.e.: live recordings, studio outtakes, etc. Something like Bob Dylan's Great White Wonder, Led Zeppelin Live On Blueberry Hill, or Rolling Stones Liver Than You'll Ever Be come to mind as classic examples of bootlegs. The true bootleg marketplace, while still illegal, doesn't necessarily interfere with commercial sales of "real" records, in my opinion. As a live concert taper and free trader for 25 plus years, I'm not really a fan of bootleggers making 100% profits from their sales. I'd rather see the live recordings that the artists and record companies aren't selling be traded freely amongst the hardcore fans that usually already own all the official product the record company and artists are selling...

A pirate record is a copy of something that the record companies have released commercially. The examples posted previously of Tool albums and such sourced from CD's on marbled vinyl and the like are pirate albums. A pirate album is a clone of something that the record companies and artists are trying to sell (or have tried to sell) and can directly cut into their bottom line with missed sales. The profits that a pirate makes are still huge and deplorable, and its doubly shameful because, unlike a bootleg live album, a pirate record is masquerading as something that's official product. At least a bootleg doesn't really look like official record company product (for the most part) and actual fans or any other knowledgeable people probably don't mistake them for being "real" like pirate versions of "real" albums...

Is that clear as mud for you?

Get it right, people! haha

 

there's loads of pirate vinyl here in London, sister ray openly admit selling the stuff. i don't know where it all stands regarding copyright but I guess there's probably some law being broken somewhere. Ultimately pirate copies always sound **** whilst masquerading as the real thing which is as good a reason as you'll get to not tolerate them. Someone somewhere will be fooled into buying them and maybe they'll be happy with it and that's fair enough, especially when the original goes for loadsamoney, but doesn't make it anymore right.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that Scorpio is completely legit.

It seems highly suspect that, with the curious exception of their WEA titles (which have a 'licensed by Rhino' sticker), none of the Scorpios' covers reference the copyright holder. My 'spidey sense' says that the mob has something to do with it, which Scorpio's reputed New Jersey origin and mysterious lack of a proper web presence reinforces.

 

It's usually easy to spot Pirates, and boots don't try to hide the fact that they are not legit. I guess I'm more of a music lover than a collector because colored vinyl and alternate cover art doesn't interest me. Bonus tracks or alternate takes and better sound will make me reach for my wallet.

The few times Ive been duped and bought a Pirated copy Ive always been disappointed. It is amazing to me how easy it is to tell if a record is sourced from a CD. There is no contest all analog source path sounds superior.

 

There are several big, relatively speaking, stores in my area that have bootlegs of quite a few major artists. Vinyl sales are still relatively small so I suspect that is the reason for a lack of crack down. At some point, I expect these stores to get slapped on the wrist.

 

I picked up a copy of David Bowie's Toy on vinyl. It was obviously a bootleg. They did a decent job putting all of the CBS labelling on it and the sound is good. Still, its a bootleg and obviously illegal.

 

It's illegal? It doesn't pay anyone involved with the recording? It's black market, possibly mafia run? Should I go on?

 

Er...well it's also fortunately not pressed at GV, Rainbo or United either?

 

No, the labels don't know who to come down hard on at all. Nick Drake, and Brian Eno owned by Island/Universal and Virgin/EMI (now Uni as well) respectively have had recent knockoffs hit the market. The entire Led Zeppelin catalog on colored vinyl, nude cover EL.

Here is the thing, they run off 1,000 or 2,00 copies, and it's sent out world wide. By the time it hits the market, the party responsible has moved on to the next office in the next country, with the next idea they are hatching. Maybe the next idea is a Beatles or Floyd box set on silver discs?

You think Janie and the Experience Hendrix family are going to go into Russia, China, or Italy to snoop around and ask questions about this Electric Ladyland album???

Or that Warner Music Group has the cash to deal with those LZ colored vinyl pressings? Their money is better spent issuing the LZ deluxe versions coming soon.

I guess they could rough up some of the retailers and threaten them until they are out of business, what few remain I mean. Kill off the last of the record stores, yeah that might be a good idea?

Or should they worry more about online digital piracy? Maybe spend their limited cash on getting up to speed online???

 

The stores in Portland are frickin loaded with these releases (a real Jackpot!) and I haven't listened to them but they sure look like crap and they certainly aren't in the public domain anywhere. Off the top of my head Loveless, N.Y. Harvest Moon, Every Nick Cave Record, Village Green Preservation Society, Danzig 1, T.W. Bone Machine and probably hundreds of others. The thing all these seem to have in common is that they are albums people want but are out of print. I think its pretty messed up because most people know about 1% of what people on this forum know about records and they are being sold as legitimate releases. So these people don't know that they are buying essentially a physical copy of an illegal download.

 

The best way for labels to tackle this problem is to release these damn titles on vinyl legitimately. The pirates know what titles people want, how come the those who release records for a living don't?
After all, aren't they in the business of selling records?

 

Earlier this year I saw a teenager eyeing up one of these 'knock offs' at HMV in London. It was a much sought after title, I couldn't help myself and butted in telling her it was fake and would almost certainly sound awful. I couldn't bear to see her spend her hard earned cash on that ****. It makes me sad to think how many other newbie vinyl enthusiast are getting sucked in.

 

There is a simple solution to the problem. Record companies get of your butts and release these albums that are very popular and expensive for originals. It would be a no brainer to release entire Nick Cave, Pink Floyd, Kinks etc catalogues on proper all analogue vinyl (as far as possible). Nick Drake estate saw the light and did a decent job. Hendrix estate should put their dubious principles aside and release Track EL cover. They then would make the money and not the pirates.

I see no point in buying pirate records of poor quality which are quite different from bootleg releases that are never likely to be taken up by the official label. Coloured vinyl does not appeal to me much and is usually the give away. It's strange they do this as it makes them more obviously fakes. Crooks / gangs are all over producing fakes and can well believe some come from within the EU. Unfortunately this business is likely connected to drugs, fake booze and other illegal activities.

 

They should know better though. I have a copy of Kraftwerk 2 issued by Crown. Nobody should think it's legit.

 

I remember being in Fopp and seeing all these cheap jazz LPs. I was tempted until I saw the labeling (ok, these are legit because the sound recording is out of copyright, but they are probably not the best sounding records).

 

Is it that hard to find a Nick Cave LP (at least one from the 80s)?

 

The Cave ones I've seen are ones like The Boatman's Call and No More Shall We Part, difficult to get at a decent price. Also seen the usual Tender Prey etc. Another I've seen recently is PJ Harvey's Stories From The City... Looks like a particularly bad one too.

EDIT: This is in South Wales btw

 

I have that same Saucerful of Secrets copy and was impressed at how decent it is. Not great of course, but OK.