Streaming media player or computer with DAC?

I heard the Teac next to my Bifrost and the Bifrost was much, much better. The Sony is in another league entirely.

Sure, you have set up a computer based audio system for much less than buying the Sony, but don't have any illusion that what you have even comes close to a high end digital source, because it does not. Not even close really.

 

I actually own the Weiss DAC 202, I was simply suggesting a set up that would be rather closer in price. I am under no illusions, but thanks for the thought

 

I use Airfoil in combination with Audirvana and an Apple TV that I can run with the TV off. Works great.

 

But why suggest a setup that isn't even close in performance to the Sony? As I said, I don't think the Sony can be equaled for the same amount of cash. What's important to me is sound quality, not some rather ambiguous ideas about how much more "flexibility" you get with a computer/DAC setup. All I want to do is play music and get the best sound quality I can for the price. That's fine if other folks have different priorities.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot one other key selling point of the Sony for me, that being the DSD "remastering" engine that converts everything to DSD. Most of my music collection is redbook, 16/44, so having a DAC/player that does an especially good job with format was a top priority. I have not done a lot of comparing using or not using this feature, but most people think it makes a substantial improvement to redbook format music. I know this can be done with software via JRiver but that doesn't mean the implementation and result is the same, from what I hear this is not the case.

 

Some people are not interested in something with limited flexibility, expandability, functionality, and support. For these reasons I would never consider the Sony as a viable option in my system.

I am sure it sounds nice, but there are lots of DACs out there that sound nice.

 

I doubt very much you have heard every computer/DAC/USB cable combo available in the $2000 price range, so I don't believe you can state that nothing comes close to the sound the SONY produces. As I said earlier, if you checked things out and that is the choice you made then that is fine. No need to get defensive toward those who came to a different conclusion

 

I think I'd be inclined to go for a Mac Mini all tooled up and any DAC you like in price. That said, I think Sony were late to the party but delivered a good product. Wouldn't swap it out for my Onkyo TX-NR818 however (and the higher models) all of which handle DSD natively via HDMI.

 

I think the Sony is a little bit more than that. I'd expect good support from a retailer for the money paid too and reckon Sony will do likewise.

 

Of course, I doubt anyone has heard every single piece of gear available. But I have heard a lot and I will stand by my statement. Part of the reason the Sony is likely to perform better is because it is an all-in-one unit and can be optimized for playing audio, while a computer takes some effort. I mean, the guy who owns db audio labs and makes the tranquility DAC has all sorts of info and procedures to make the Mac a decent audio server, including practically rewriting the OS to strip out unnecessary code and processes in an attempt to improve it's performance. He couldn't even play music I brought to RMAF 2012 and 2013 because it has to be in a particular format, etc... and the output to the DAC using S/PDIF or USB is not a very good solution for transferring audio data either.

I am not getting defensive, I am simply pointing out errors people have made about the Sony. People are making all sorts of false comments about it, but I guess forming opinions on things people know nothing about and have no experience with is par for the course in audio. See most cable discussions.

What kind of advantages does a PC based music server have anyway? People keep saying "flexibility" but what does that really mean? What other functionality beside playing music are people expecting? Considering you are LIMITED to USB with computer audio in most cases, I see that as a really major limitation than simply can't be overcome. As I said before too, USB is only "bit perfect" in folks' imaginations. It is not perfect, not even close.

 

What other functionality are you expecting?

Expandability is available by simply adding a hard drive.

I guess a 5 year warranty is not enough "support"?

See my comment above about forming opinions on things people are largely ignorant about.

 

You said it so it must be true. I don't get your usb can't be bit-perfect. I don't understand why you can't realize that some people want to play around on the Internet and click on streaming links, watch a YouTube video or whatever. How do I listen my buddy's Soundcloud link he just emailed me on the Sony?

 

"You said it so it must be true" Ok, thanks for the condescension. Is that advancing the conversation or doing anything except trying to cause issues here?

Why do you think "I can't realize", etc. That's ridiculous and more BS. Usually streaming audio isn't good quality to begin with so I would not have a significant investment in listening to it. A simple, inexpensive DAC would be fine for that, like the Schiit Modi, HiFace, etc... but when it comes to my main source I want the best sound I can get for my money and listening to Youtube vids isn't anywhere close to priority for me. You can use internet radio on the Sony too btw.

I'm going to stop posting in this thread now. The responses are getting pretty insulting.

 

I pointed out earlier in the thread the type of flexibility people are wanting yet you continue to ask what else is there to do but play music? Plenty more. You are also saying that usb is an inferior form of connection yet nothing to back that up with. Are you seriously implying that NO usb DACs are bit-perfect? Thirdly, not all streaming services are lossy. I upload uncompressed files all the time to stream on Soundcloud.

 

I expect the S/N ratio of this thread to greatly increase.

Back to the OPs original question .. With a Mac/PC setup you have the following advantages ..

• Use the playback software of your choice
• Organize your music the way that works best for you
• Add processing of your choice (Foobar has hundreds of plugins) or run professional VST plugins
• Back up your library how you see fit (and control access)
• Be futureproof .. update/change software or DAC if a new format appears.
• Have the flexibility to try different things .. maybe some EQ or spectral processing.

You do not HAVE to do any tweaking to OS X or Windows to make it into a great audio player. There are things you CAN do that may or may not make a difference to YOU. You have the option of experimenting (or not) and see what you like best.

 

Thanks for the improved signal ratio. But yes, you do need to do some windows tweaking to get bit perfect sound out of it. You have to shut down all the sound processing that windows insists on doing, as well as shut down sounds. Unless something has changed since I have done it, there is some work (settings) required.

I just built 4 music server systems using old computers, and the free version of JRiver Media Center. I set one up to give away to a friend whom I am meeting tonight. A music buff who is still handling CDs by the thousands. I thought it would be nice to set up and configure a computer / JRiver server, and then just hand it to him, and all he has to do is plug it into his top of the ling Yamaha receiver after attaching hard drive(s), and press play.

I just like making these music servers from scratch, and then sometimes running into a problem and being forced to find out why that is a problem, and then fix it. As an example, I installed a Asus Xonar DG PCI Sound Card into a Dell Optiplex GX620, and have flawless bit perfect digital output with toslink. I then did the same installation to a Dell Dimension 3000, and the sound output was choppy and stuttered if I so much as moved the mouse while playing audio. I actually switched out everything in search of the problem. Different memory, and even fresh software and windows install, different cables of course, different power supply. I finally took out the toslink pass-through sound card the Asus Xonar, and dropped in a cheaper Envy chip-set based card (which I had on hand thankfully), and then I got it right. How odd that the Asus Xonar did not get along at all with the Dell Dimension 3000, yet the Dell Optiplex GX620 got on perfectly fine with it. Both are same era Dells.

 

Running Foobar with WASAPI blocks all other sounds when Foobar is running. This allows bit perfect output.

 

Running JRiver with WASAPI or ASIO results in bit perfect output as well.

But you are saying that there is an automatic shutdown of window's sounds with Foobar?

 

How is the tablet app for the Sony? Does it allow you to edit play lists? Enjoy the art? Read the great PDF's that come with downloads these days from the hi res sites?

I saw the screen was iddy biddy....just wondering how the tablet app was....

 

According to the docs it does. I always turn Windows sounds off anyway so I did not notice.

 

Yep, when foobar is running or "paused" it won't allow any other sounds. You have to physically "stop" the music (not "pause") to get the sound to return to normal.

 

On a mac, using Ammarra, Pure Music or the rather excellent Audirvana also allows for bit perfect replay. Or, you can upsample to any preferred level, although in my own experience I actually find I largely prefer the files played at their original resolution. I'm limited by the age of my Weiss as it's the pre dsd version, but a Schiit Loki would solve this for peanuts if I ever find any music I actually want in that format. If I wanted to upsample to dsd as the sony does, that's no problem either, all those programs have the ability, as does JRiver.

In answer to Dave's "Why would you suggest.......", simply because we disagree, I firmly believe that the $2k would get you a better sounding set up. If it didn't sound good, all the convenience in the world is worth nada! Hence, my other "hi res" player is an old fashioned thing called a Turntable The convenience is just a handy bonus, although the future proofing is far more important. Future proofing that for obvious commercial reasons is not the case with the sony! But none of us would entertain this route if it didn't sound great with the music we already own.

But to give you an idea what this convenience looks like, last night my partner and I were listening to some music after dinner, then she mentioned that there was a radio show with Josh Homme being interviewed that we'd missed on sunday, a min later we've got it on catch up via the BBC's excellent service. After that, we watched an episode of Treme via Blinkbox, then went back to a couple of albums before bed. In the past, she would have pottered off to the *TV room*, hunted for a Treme dvd for 20 mins, got bored and stuck the tv on. Instead we got to enjoy a quality evening together, enjoying some great & various music (and images in Treme's case) via a pair of Harbeth speakers! Life was good

 

The only thing I am not currently able to do is output 5.1 from my music server other than DTS CD releases and quad conversions.

I was told using 3 two channel DACs is one way of getting DVD-A and SACD rips decoded in 5,1 and the analog signals sent to a receiver. That is one reason I like 6 chan analog input on receivers.

 

For the OP - what format(s) are your files? Where are they stored (laptop, desktop, server)?

I have a mix of FLAC and MP3 files that I store on a Windows Home Server box that sits in a back room in my basement. I built the server primarily out of spare parts I had laying around the house. WHS was ~$50 when I bought it; Linux is probably a better and cheaper option, but WHS is super easy to set up and configure so I went with that given the relatively low cost.

I use a Raspberry Pi running Squeezelite as my transport, which feeds bits via USB to an ODAC and on to my pre-amp. I primarily use apps on my Android phone and iPad to queue files for playback. The entire system works flawlessly, sounds great, and only cost a few hundred dollars.

 

I have a quick question. Does anyone know which version of JRiver MC was the last one to not require an internet connection?

I recall last year reading about ver. 19 and tons of people did not appreciate that JRiver was requiring this not just for activation, but connection to Facebook, Twitter, etc. all on the name of "social media connection" and listening suggestions. Ya know Amazon adds etc. in other words, JRiver were selling out to big advertisers.

Not only do I not want Billy Newbie telling me what he thinks is good (I don't want his suggestions) there is not a phone jack anywhere near my stereo rig or music server. I just am not interested in my server/player knowing what the internet looks like even.

Was ver. 18 free from internet requirement?